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10-02-2021, 11:50 AM
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Master
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: अनुगृहितोऽस्म
Posts: 16,136
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Verse 55
Jesus said,
“Whoever does not hate his father and his mother
cannot become a student of mine.
“And whoever does not hate his brothers and sisters
and bear his cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."
__________________
⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜
Happiness is the result of an enlightened mind whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.
⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜ ⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜⁜
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11-02-2021, 07:50 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJohn
Verse 55
Jesus said,
“Whoever does not hate his father and his mother
cannot become a student of mine.
“And whoever does not hate his brothers and sisters
and bear his cross as I do, will not be worthy of me."
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Do you think that the word translated as "hate" was accurately translated?
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11-02-2021, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
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i hope so. i follow this teaching of jesus!
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11-02-2021, 09:22 PM
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Master
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 4,486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
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Disavow works better for me.......
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11-02-2021, 09:43 PM
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who ever wrote that did not like his family
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11-02-2021, 09:58 PM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 5,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
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http://gospel-thomas.net/gtbypage_112702.pdf (For whatever reason when copying, the greek characterers are transliterated, but you can see the original if you follow the link)
42:25/355 peje.IS je peta.meste.pef.`.eiwt` 24
55.1* *Said-JS51 this: Whoever-hates-his- \ -father
42:26/356 an` mN.tef.maau f.na$.R.machths an 25
not , and-his-mother, he-can-become-disciple not
42:27/357 na.ei` auw Nf.meste.nef.`.snhu` mN. 23
55.2> to-me, > and ()()-hates-his- \-brothers and-
42:28/358 .nef.swne Nf.fei M.pef.s7os N.ta.xe 25
-his-sisters, &()-take his-cross in-my-way,
42:29/359 f.na.$wpe an ef.o N.a3ios na.ei pe- 22+2
56.1* he-will-come-to-be not ()being deserving to-me.
https://www.freelyreceive.net/metalo...lin/th055.html
55. Yeshua says: Whoever does not hate his father and his mother, shall not be able to become a Disciple to me. And whoever does not hate his brothers and his sisters, and take up his own cross in my way, shall not be made worthy of me.
55. Yeshúa dice: Quien no odia a su padre y a su madre, no podrá hacerse discípulo mío. Y quien no odia a sus hermanos y a sus hermanas, y levanta su propia cruz a mi manera, no será hecho digno de mí.
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odium n (genitive odiī or odī); second declension
hatred, ill-will, aversion, dislike, disgust, detestation, odium, loathing, enmity or their manifestation
the condition of being hated, unpopularity
(by metonymy) an object of hatred or aversion
(in weaker sense) weariness, boredom, impatience or their manifestation
----
google translate (Javanese ???):
https://translate.google.cn/?hl=en&s...A&op=translate
Quien no odia a su padre y a su madre
Who does not love his father and mother
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm
As they say ... "traduttore, traditore"
Symbolically, if by "Father" Jesus meant one's inner-self (as I believe he does), we can infer that Jesus meant that those who don't love (in other words: isn't in harmony with) their inner-self should follow him (Jesus) and learn (to love their inner-self, have their ego and inner-self in harmony).
That verse 55 doesn't seem to mean that only those who hate their Earthly parents are accepted by Jesus, as those translations may be interpreted to mean.
__________________
Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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12-02-2021, 02:18 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Do you think that the word translated as "hate" was accurately translated?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbodhiSky
i hope so. i follow this teaching of jesus!
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It's a very big assumption to think that every word or saying attributed to Jesus in the various Bibles was remembered/transcribed Word-Perfect! However, you are certainly entitled to your belief.
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12-02-2021, 02:21 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Molearner
Disavow works better for me.......
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"Disavow" is better but somehow that does not seem like the optimal word either.
EDIT: "Detach" might be an even better word, but I must think more about this.
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12-02-2021, 02:22 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AbodhiSky
who ever wrote that did not like his family
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Now, you make a very good point regarding "whoever wrote that".
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12-02-2021, 02:26 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 4,447
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
http://gospel-thomas.net/gtbypage_112702.pdf (For whatever reason when copying, the greek characterers are transliterated, but you can see the original if you follow the link)
42:25/355 peje.IS je peta.meste.pef.`.eiwt` 24
55.1* *Said-JS51 this: Whoever-hates-his- \ -father
42:26/356 an` mN.tef.maau f.na$.R.machths an 25
not , and-his-mother, he-can-become-disciple not
42:27/357 na.ei` auw Nf.meste.nef.`.snhu` mN. 23
55.2> to-me, > and ()()-hates-his- \-brothers and-
42:28/358 .nef.swne Nf.fei M.pef.s7os N.ta.xe 25
-his-sisters, &()-take his-cross in-my-way,
42:29/359 f.na.$wpe an ef.o N.a3ios na.ei pe- 22+2
56.1* he-will-come-to-be not ()being deserving to-me.
https://www.freelyreceive.net/metalo...lin/th055.html
55. Yeshua says: Whoever does not hate his father and his mother, shall not be able to become a Disciple to me. And whoever does not hate his brothers and his sisters, and take up his own cross in my way, shall not be made worthy of me.
55. Yeshúa dice: Quien no odia a su padre y a su madre, no podrá hacerse discípulo mío. Y quien no odia a sus hermanos y a sus hermanas, y levanta su propia cruz a mi manera, no será hecho digno de mí.
----
odium n (genitive odiī or odī); second declension
hatred, ill-will, aversion, dislike, disgust, detestation, odium, loathing, enmity or their manifestation
the condition of being hated, unpopularity
(by metonymy) an object of hatred or aversion
(in weaker sense) weariness, boredom, impatience or their manifestation
----
google translate (Javanese ???):
https://translate.google.cn/?hl=en&s...A&op=translate
Quien no odia a su padre y a su madre
Who does not love his father and mother
http://gnosis.org/naghamm/nhl_thomas.htm
As they say ... "traduttore, traditore"
Symbolically, if by "Father" Jesus meant one's inner-self (as I believe he does), we can infer that Jesus meant that those who don't love (in other words: isn't in harmony with) their inner-self should follow him (Jesus) and learn (to love their inner-self, have their ego and inner-self in harmony).
That verse 55 doesn't seem to mean that only those who hate their Earthly parents are accepted by Jesus, as those translations may be interpreted to mean.
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Your scholarly approach is helpful in addressing possible translation issues, but it still does not address the issue of whether Jesus actually spoke those words or whether there was a problem with the saying that is due to a misrepresentation by the scribe who actually wrote that.
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