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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spirituality

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  #61  
Old 09-01-2021, 12:04 PM
Greenslade
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeS80
Yep, self is a false misleading concept or idea that is all in your mind.
Self is Atman and therefore Brahman (as we've discussed) , and thinking that it is a concept or idea in your mind is your ego (not a swear word) perpetuating its own superiority. It's not a question of whether you are right or wrong, it's a question of the reasons you think that. What you've expressed here is a 'surface layer' of your consciousness.

https://frithluton.com/articles/self/
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  #62  
Old 09-01-2021, 06:16 PM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Self is Atman and therefore Brahman (as we've discussed) , and thinking that it is a concept or idea in your mind is your ego (not a swear word) perpetuating its own superiority. It's not a question of whether you are right or wrong, it's a question of the reasons you think that. What you've expressed here is a 'surface layer' of your consciousness.

https://frithluton.com/articles/self/
I was talking about the self with an uncapitalized s that some people separate from the Self with a capital S. The self with an uncapitalized s and the Self with a capital S is the same Self thus, the self with an uncapitalized s is a concept or idea that is a play on the word Self-creates a mental image of a lower uncapitalized self, when a lower uncapitalized self does not.exist to begin with.

It is like a salesman or businessman or politician creating a problem so he/she can create a solution to the problem and then profit and/or benefit from the solution to said problem.
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  #63  
Old 10-01-2021, 07:03 AM
MikeS80 MikeS80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
'Negative' is judgement of the process you're describing and not fact, and in many cases it can be dissociative. Once you understand that you begin to move away from that 'automatic' process. If it is Atman/Brahman then can that be negative
Yes, negative, positive, good and bad are judgments/discernment of the proccess. Discernment is necessary for learning, understanding and knowing, how else is one going to learn and know anything without discernment?

Is the earth flat or round? When our feet are planted on the ground, the earth looks flat. Most of the land and oceans on earth are flat, except for mountians, hills etc, but when we look at earth from afar (like on the moon), and see earth as a whole, the earth looks round as a whole. Not everything is what it seems to be. Discernment/differianting helps us to understand and know the not what it seems as a whole.

I do not mean negative to be bad. By negative, I mean improper, false, not true etc. The negative terminal/connector on a battery is not bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Conditioning is not based on fear, fear is the imagination 'filling in the blanks' of the mind when there is not enough information. Part of the 'conditioning' is the Limbic System, which is often falsely referred to as the 'lizard brain'. It's the first line of defence and its main function is survival, it makes us gravitate towards what is conducive our survival and move away from what is not. There are also a number of unconscious 'subsytems' also at play that have more sway than the conscious mind.
Our survival fight or flight instincts for the most part does not effect us spiritually. The fear and conditioning I am talking about is the Fear and uncertainty of the unknown- not knowing the unknown. The unknown are 2 "things" to most people: god, the spiritual, ultimate/absolute reality etc., and the unknown is the future because the future is not known.

Fear, love, hate, likes and dislikes etc are all related/attached to of being a benefit or not for an individual or recieving some kind of reward. This benefit/reward is a condition. Most, if not all people fear the unknown of something being of beneifit or recieving a reward or not either physically, mentally/emotionally and/or spiritually to him/her, if not right now, then in the future, most of the time it is in the future.

Romantic love is a prime example of something that has a benefit/reward thus condition attached to it, this is why romantic love is strong and extreme. Unconditional love, on the other hand is not romanticized/sensualized because unconditional love does not have the condition of having a benefit/reward attached to it. Unconditional love is a friendliness of loving thy neighbor as much as I love myself and god. Like I said before god is synonymous with the right here and right now, not with the past or future (even though, the right here and right now was the past and will be the future, but the past is when the conditioning/programming took place). One can only change/evolve to not being conditioned/programmed in the right here and right now, One can not go back to change/evolve in his/her past, and the future did not happen yet, the future is dependent on the right here and right now.

The conditioning I talk about, is the conscious and unconscious programming people have that has a condition/benefit/reward attached, and it is fear based, along with mental and memory of time of the past and the imagination of the unknown and the unknown of one's future, which did not happen yet.

People use their imaginations to create a mental picture or image in their heads about a benefit or about recieving a benefit and it is nothing more than daydreaming or self hypnosis when one meditates on said mental image. Why do people meditate and/or want to transcend their mind, ego, body etc? Because they want or focus on the benefit of having a silent or still mind (in the future, not now) and the bliss that comes from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Karma has become little more than victim/reward mentality as far as the chatter in these forums shows. In the orginal Sanskrit karma meant 'action', but later on it came to mean 'cause and effect'. If you're going down this road then the understanding is in kamma-vipaka, or 'the results of intention' - also known as the ethical component of karma. Intention creates action which then has a reaction, and the 'results'/vipaka are not just in the physical reaction but in the emotional outcomes as a result of both our actions and the 'results'/vipaka. Kamma-vipaka is one of the stimuli that is in a 'feedback loop' with the ego and is part of what you call programming.
I do not see a problem with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
I went through two rounds of cognitive behaviour therapy which took my framewrok apart peiece by piece and put it under a microscope - all the way back to childhood. What you are calling 'conditioning' isn't, 'technically' it's cognitive behaviour and the ancients would have called positive cognitive behaviour 'Right Thinking'. Thinking that things are either positive or negative is symptom of cognitive behaviour, and even more so in the context of Spirituality where "We are here to learn the lessons" or phrases of that ilk, if you beleive in such. Negative/destructive cognitive behaviour -especially within Spirituality and the context of the source being Brahman/Atamn - is thinking that anything is 'negative'. When you learn and gain from it it's no longer 'negative and you asre no longer the victim, you begin to deal with your experiences, thought processes and 'conditioning' in a far more constructive manner. Jung would say that this is making the unconscious conscious.
Yes, I agree. The word negative has become a bad word. You can also say that positive thinking is the true way to think, because positivity/unconditional love (as I mentioned above) is atman's true nature, while atman's imagination and free will/the ability to choose or not causes atman to think negatively/the false untrue way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
It's not just one's mind that's responsible for it because there are unconscious systems that have more sdway ovce how one thinks than one thinks, it's not until you travel dee3per into your unconscious that you begin to become conscious of so much more.
Conscious or unconscious, it is still inside a person/people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
Fear is a basic survival technique that has kept us alive since we were little more than prey animals for lions and tigers and bears, oh my. It's also a Frankenstein's monster of our own creation. It's never about what we have but what we do with it, and if we don't deal with not the fear itself but the frameworks that created it, those monsters are shoved into the Shadow Self and their rattling of their cages are ecxhoed and reflected in what we express and how we express it - Spiritually included. Again, making the unconscious conscious.
I touched upon this above.
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