Meditation, some answers

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by zinnat

That is true but it is going to be quite long effort.
There are no shortcuts.

Actually, there are!!
#1. You could have been a big meditator in a past life, so you took to it like a fish in water!
#1a. And sat at the feet of Masters.

#2. You have the powerful grace or 'influence/ help' of a Guru.
#3. For some reason you have been gifted for decades with simple, inexplicable Grace.
(I always think it's cuz of adoring God in past lives, myself)

#4. You were born on a farm and have naturally slow thoughts passing thru your head ...and it's easy to focus.
(That's kind of a joke...but actually isn't!!!)

I could come up with a couple more! But I'd bring in Bible stories, better not.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

With me, I could not initially quiet the mind and meditate easily .... in the beginning... as I was distracted by "teachers" offering "shortcuts".

I was fortunate indeed to have a primary teacher (and others) who many years ago pointed out that "there are no short cuts" and that it was "going to be quite long effort".

With my cerebral inclinations, it required a great effort and awesome interventions by my masterful teachers to get over the hump of cerebral intellectualism and the quest for "shortcuts".

It is good for you that you were able realized the reality in time and corrected the course too.

with love,
sanjay

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Are you aware that the Nobel Prize winning quantum physicist Schrodinger once explicitly stated that science will NOT be able to empirically "prove" certain things at the subtlest levels of the Reality and pointed to meditation as being the only way to ultimately "prove" some of those things? Even now, the scientific instruments and the observer himself have an impact on the experiments.

The theoretical unified force field of quantum physics may indeed be difficult to "prove" completely with scientific instruments.

Though i am not a science guy but being an avid reader, i am aware of the basic concepts of quantum physics. But, my proposed experiments has nothing to do with quantum physics but only conventional one so there is no chance of an observer/observation effecting results in any way. I basically needs advanced MRI, weighing and
Ophthalmological instruments and their operators for a month or so at my disposal. That is all.

with love,
sanjay

Let us resume with the original issue of the thread.

I think that before going into the methodology of the meditation, we have to talk about the cross section of the humans a bit more. Though i have mentioned mostly of this already in the thread but it would not hurt repeating some points once more to refresh the mind in order to manifest clear understanding.

As i mentioned before humans are a three folded entity, starting consciousness as the innermost one, then soul and then human as the outermost one. Both of the human body and soul body have their separate minds. What we consider conscious mind is human mind. In the same way, unconscious is nothing but the mind of the soul. Both minds are connected with the consciousness but at a given time, consciousness basically focuses on only one of two minds. Because, unlike the minds, consciousness cannot do multitasking. It gets attracted to only one thought/feeling at a time which is the most prominent one and feels it. This may sound a bit odd to some people but it is true. Mind always does multitasking, but consciousness does not. I will explain it later in the thread.

Here it is pertinent to talk a bit about the ultimate goal of meditation, which is enlightenment. Realize that consciousness does not need to be enlightened because being eternal, it is always enlightened. it is only mind which has to accomplish this truth. for that, the human mind has to get full access to consciousness but the intermediate layer( soul and its mind) stands between the human mind and consciousness. So, there is no direct way for human mind to approach consciousness. This journey has to go through soul's mind. So, first conscious mind has to get access to subconscious only then it can approach consciousness.

This is precisely what chakras are. All these are higher spiritual planes and human mind has to elevate through these during spiritual journey.

Though humans stand at the bottom of this pyramid, but they have some unique qualities. Spiritual entities of all other higher planes cannot climb up the ladder being there, but can only fall below further. That means that they cannot be enlightened. Yes, they can remain there for very long time, but further elevation is forbidden for them.
It is only humans which can elevate further, right up to the top.

And, that is precisely the reason why God asked angels to bow before Adam while lucifer refused. Angels, even being angles and having much higher spiritual status from humans, can only remain angles forever. They cannot be God but humans can be equal to God. This quality is unique to humans.

Both of Hinduism and Buddhism also say that enlightenment is possible for humans only.

That is enough for now.

with love,
sanjay

[Unseeking Seeker]

@ post 65
***

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 61 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by iamthat

And Max Planck (who won the Nobel Prize for Physics) has much to say on science and consciousness (I presume these particular quotes are not subject to copyright and so may be quoted as is):

[color=Black]*Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.

First of all, I loved your post.

For your information, there is a book (Quantum Questions edited by Ken Wilber) which contains the "mystical" writings of the quantum physicists ... including but not limited to Planck, Einstein, Schroedinger, Eddington, DeBroglie, etc. They support the same point that you made in your post.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 62 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

#2. You have the powerful grace or 'influence/ help' of a Guru.

You raise a very good point about "shortcuts".

If I had not experienced the powerful interventions of my "Guru", I don't know what my state would have been at this point in my life.

She definitely provided me with "shortcuts" but, even then , I still needed to make a very intense effort. However, she helped to speed up the process considerably as my black "homeless" sage of yesteryear had previously pointed out that "you were not even at a point where we could discuss basics". I clearly had a long long way to go at that time before my "guru" intervened to speed up the process.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 65 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by zinnat

Both of Hinduism and Buddhism also say that enlightenment is possible for humans only.

Ramana Maharshi was asked by his disciples what to do with his "pet" cow Lakshmi when she passed away and Ramana told them that Lakshmi would be buried.
According to the story, his disciples questioned that since they said that only saints are buried in India.
Ramana responded that the cow Lakshmi had "attained" (not sure what word to use here) MOKSHA.
The disciples reportedly asked what he meant by MOKSHA with respect to the cow.
Ramana responded that he was using the term MOKSHA in the traditional sense and that Lakshmi was indeed "liberated".

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Actually, there are!!

By golly, I think Miss Hepburn is right. Also I like the joke (Thank you for the bonus at the end Miss H)

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

If I had not experienced the powerful interventions of my "Guru", I don't know what my state would have been at this point in my life.

Yes, thanks for sharing Still_Waters with your typical humor and gentility; a GENUINE teacher can work some miracles too. A middling or confused one can slow it down (considerably).