Is believing seeing?

They say seeing is believing, and I suppose this is true. There is nothing quite like seeing something with one's own eyes.

But it seems to me it is also quite true, perhaps even more so, that believing is seeing as well. That is to say that what one already believes can have a very powerful filtering effect on what else one is able to see as fact or truth. Take someone in a cult for example. To those on the outside, to hear about their beliefs and what they call truth can seem wacky as all get out, even downright dangerous to themselves and to others. Yet to them, their beliefs are their truths, and anything that goes against them is deemed false. Of course one need not be a member of a cult to be so affected, this tendency is a strong one for all human beings, IMO. We like to say that we should put ourselves in another's shoes, or try to see something through their eyes, yet often it seems we only do so in order to try to make our own argument against it better, and not really consider that our ‘truth’ may not be so sound and self evident as we like to think.

How much believing what you see do you think you do, vs seeing what you believe?

Do you think you do a good job of trying to really see things through another's eyes?
Do you wonder how much of your own truths have been and continue to be confirmed by confirmation bias, and how much through evidence?
Do you believe in facts, truth, and evidence at all, or is it all equal in weight?
Do you care at all, or is it just an unsolvable riddle? A mystery that one must live with and so you just get on with life, tell what’s what as you see it, and leave truth to the wind?
What is there to lose or gain from all this?


Amendment:
It occurs to me that what I wrote above tends to look mostly at believing is seeing as a negative thing, as in one can't see truth because they see what they want instead. However, I think it can work to the better as well. It is hard sometimes not to notice all the evil in the world, often done by those who believe it is, and therefore see it as, good. But humans are biased toward seeing bad things already anyway, five to one from what I hear, that is it takes 5 good things to balance 1 bad thing in the human negative biased mind. Perhaps, choosing to have faith in the underlying goodness of the universe, dare I even suggest it, in mankind as well, helps one to see the many good things and not so easily drown it out with the few bad. Does that make any sense?

[FallingLeaves]

i think... a lot of what we might actually like to see is withheld from our sight. Along the same lines, i think I'm not going to be able to completely divvy things up and tell what is what... I think that there is a desire that we always get diverted from our quest to do just that. Not for some evil meanie trying to control the world and keep us from things we so want or otherwise make us hurt but more for a parent trying to guard children from parts of life that really aren't that desirable. That said, i don't think what people will think what i just said means is what i just said means.

i see the tendency in myself to want to play with compensation bias. And some might say some of my recent posts here have me lost in it. But at the same time i've been paying attention, and i've seen enough stuff that goes against what i want things to mean to have a healthy respect that in the end, i don't know what i'm talking about any more than anyone else seems to. Just everyone else seems comfortable at grabbing at some pretty idea and running with it despite what seem like obvious red flags to me, i can't do that for whatever reason.

as far as seeing through others eyes, well maybe. I think I understand more than I seem to... i do feel like whatever the truth is of that i will be told i don't understand others, am not at all empathic, etc..., so it is hard to tell what is what.

As far as belief in facts, truth, etc... diverting oneself away from lies, pleasantness, and vanity in general is the only way to learn who one really is. Rather than who one could be to fit in with the world.

while i can't comment on whether that is actually a good idea, i know the ancients have said it is. But that path isn't "nice" it isn't "pleasant" and it doesn't feed vanities. It does in the end lead one to conclude that what others think are 'facts' may be as incorrect as what they think their nearest cult is trying to propagate though. Maybe 'mainstream thought' is just another kind of cult? just doesn't have that reputation because of the sheer number of people who have bought into it and want to paint it in pretty colors? As they say, it is the victors who write history. And if there is noone around strong enough to throw water on the fire, all the better for them.

i've seen enough of what i believe to sense it is really there, but not enough to be otherwise satisfying. i've also seen evidence that some of the stuff i've said in the past is absolute garbage. And had to amend my ways, a lot. Despite being in love with whatever it is i was saying at the time I said it.

I probably shouldn't be believing in the unthinkable though, given what everyone else's stance on the matter is. Hard to go against the crowd sigh.

as far as what there is to lose or gain i decided a while back it doesn't behoove me to try to convince others they could have this and this and this if only they first did that and that and that to 'earn' it or whatever. Or on the flip side they could avoid something if only they recited the correct magic spell in the proper way at the proper time first. It really isn't a nice thing to say after all.

[inavalan]

https://encyclopedia.thefreedictiona...g+is+believing

Seeing is believing is an idiom first recorded in this form in 1639[1] that means "only physical or concrete evidence is convincing". It is the essence of St. Thomas's claim to Jesus Christ, to which the latter responded that there were those who had not seen but believed. It leads to a sophistry that "seen evidence" can be easily and correctly interpreted, when in fact, interpretation may be difficult.

John 20:29 (NIV):

"Then Jesus told him, 'Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed'."

The quote is from 17th century English clergyman, Thomas Fuller:

4087. Seeing's believing, but feeling's the truth.

5813. Words are but Wind ; but seeing is believing.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas...mologia_(1732)

[inavalan]

In my experience, what you believe affects dramatically what you see, or don't see. I remember several such examples. One was after we put a new roof on the house; we started to notice (see) differences we didn't know existed.

This applies both to physically and figuratively seeing. Following your favorite news network shapes your view of the world.

As I believe that each one of us creates their own reality in the framework of their beliefs, evidently I believe that what I see isn't an absolute, and can change once I change some beliefs.

You may have watched a hypnosis show, when a subject is suggested not to see an object, a person, or not remember a word, a number. So, perception can be tricked blatantly by implanting a suggestion.

You asked several specific questions. Some of them address widespread beliefs about what is good / bad, how one should behave (according to whoever) ...

Do you think you do a good job of trying to really see things through another's eyes?

I don't think that it is good to always do that. When I think it is good, I do it.

Do you wonder how much of your own truths have been and continue to be confirmed by confirmation bias, and how much through evidence?

I am aware of the influence of my beliefs, and try to take it into account. I don't have "truths", just beliefs. I believe there are no "truth" that can be known. For practical purposes I rely on evidence, but its source is of crucial importance, and I always keep a reserve on evidence's credibility.

Do you believe in facts, truth, and evidence at all, or is it all equal in weight?

Probably this question is mis-formulated ... From what I understand you asked, I don't believe 100% in neither of those, but I use them for practical purposes.

Do you care at all, or is it just an unsolvable riddle? A mystery that one must live with and so you just get on with life, tell what’s what as you see it, and leave truth to the wind?

Again this is unclear what you asked ... I think that emotions and reasoning can lead us astray, and we should be aware of that. Ideally we should rely on a synergistic combination of intuition and intellect, paying attention to what emotions they bring in us.

What is there to lose or gain from all this?

It's good to spend some thought on this, to put some order in what we perceive and what we believe, but probably most of us will end up convinced that we know what we're doing, and it won't change an iota.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by ketzer

They say seeing is believing, and I suppose this is true. There is nothing quite like seeing something with one's own eyes.

But it seems to me it is also quite true, perhaps even more so, that believing is seeing as well. That is to say that what one already believes can have a very powerful filtering effect on what else one is able to see as fact or truth. Take someone in a cult for example. To those on the outside, to hear about their beliefs and what they call truth can seem wacky as all get out, even downright dangerous to themselves and to others. Yet to them, their beliefs are their truths, and anything that goes against them is deemed false. Of course one need not be a member of a cult to be so affected, this tendency is a strong one for all human beings, IMO. We like to say that we should put ourselves in another's shoes, or try to see something through their eyes, yet often it seems we only do so in order to try to make our own argument against it better, and not really consider that our ‘truth’ may not be so sound and self evident as we like to think.

How much believing what you see do you think you do, vs seeing what you believe?

Do you think you do a good job of trying to really see things through another's eyes?
Do you wonder how much of your own truths have been and continue to be confirmed by confirmation bias, and how much through evidence?
Do you believe in facts, truth, and evidence at all, or is it all equal in weight?
Do you care at all, or is it just an unsolvable riddle? A mystery that one must live with and so you just get on with life, tell what’s what as you see it, and leave truth to the wind?
What is there to lose or gain from all this?


Amendment:
It occurs to me that what I wrote above tends to look mostly at believing is seeing as a negative thing, as in one can't see truth because they see what they want instead. However, I think it can work to the better as well. It is hard sometimes not to notice all the evil in the world, often done by those who believe it is, and therefore see it as, good. But humans are biased toward seeing bad things already anyway, five to one from what I hear, that is it takes 5 good things to balance 1 bad thing in the human negative biased mind. Perhaps, choosing to have faith in the underlying goodness of the universe, dare I even suggest it, in mankind as well, helps one to see the many good things and not so easily drown it out with the few bad. Does that make any sense?

It's a tricky question . U should use your own intellect , logic , faith , knowledge of physical world/history/sciences and finally knowledge /experience /wisdom /intentions of others (who convey /express their beliefs just to avoid devil quotes bible type people ). Only through this is what u can get your way .And this is the riddle God has kept for us to work on to enjoy life simultaneously developing us.

Important question is whether such knowledge really helps you or not. Spirit being the source of all energies (including material/physical) , its knowledge and use it in right manner can help u even materially at a right time in right way (not necessarily at the time /situation u wish for) .

[Green.Heals]

Yes, believing is seeing.

I was trying to write to you, and it deleted.

But I believe the things I want, draws it to you. Don't give up. Even when you spend energy into a direction that is negative it brings you that negativity & those people.


So that same energy, that you are utilizing to go towards something neg, you can use it, towards something useful, something positive, and it will pull it to you. Always.

I got a specialized license plate, that says, blv it, to remind myself of this.

BELIEVING iS SEEING. ALL WAYS. Trust in yourself. You ARE Energy. What you BELIEVE is ENERGY. We are all connected.

[lemex]

This is my experience. Keep in mind my belief is based on experience another will never have which is the way of the spiritual seeing. Believing, I've found though experience is, and seeing is very different experiencing from believing (I am) seeing (wanting to). They are different realizations if it is allowed to be. I realized something long ago that if I had not seen I would only believe. If a person ever has the experience of (actually) seeing they find something entirely different it is, seeing is knowledge and confirms which is not belief, but for lack of a better word reality. This is why seeing is different. What one sees may be different from belief, even what one wants to believe. Seeing confirms believing, believing does not confirm believing. As a rule we do not really see but believe. We apply believing to believing and also to seeing. Seeing is understanding believing is not. Seeing is momentary. Even seeing cannot be explained and so fall into adding belief if not mindful.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by lemex

This is my experience. Keep in mind my belief is based on experience another will never have which is the way of the spiritual seeing. Believing, I've found though experience is, and seeing is very different experiencing from believing (I am) seeing (wanting to). They are different realizations if it is allowed to be. I realized something long ago that if I had not seen I would only believe. If a person ever has the experience of (actually) seeing they find something entirely different it is, seeing is knowledge and confirms which is not belief, but for lack of a better word reality. This is why seeing is different. What one sees may be different from belief, even what one wants to believe. Seeing confirms believing, believing does not confirm believing. As a rule we do not really see but believe. We apply believing to believing and also to seeing. Seeing is understanding believing is not. Seeing is monetary. Even seeing cannot be explained and so fall into adding belief if not mindful.

To me everything is "believing". Interestingly, there are now several threads that talk about belief vs. faith vs. ...

For example, what I see while dreaming I believe to be true (I'm not aware it's a dream). What's the difference when I'm seeing while "awake"? How do I know that I didn't make it up as I do it while dreaming?

We see only through the filters of what we already believe. This applies both to seeing with our eyes, and with our minds (even with our hearts ... ).

[ocean breeze]

Believing is dreaming. Seeing is disbelieving.

No need to believe when you can see clearly.

[snowyowl]

Seeing (or other sense perception) purely, without layering thought on top, is direct engagement with reality. Being. Belief is a thought, a theory about the seeing. It's the map vs the territory.

On second thoughts, belief has two meanings.
1. Factual: does this exist? Eg do I believe in God?
2. Value: is this important? Eg do I believe in capitalism?

Just my belief