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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Most Anything > Philosophy & Theory

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  #11  
Old 17-07-2020, 01:10 PM
r6r6 r6r6 is offline
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Quote:
We have a pattern seeking brain that sees structure everywhere and even 'meaning' in things, sometimes in all things ((this is true for the hardcore religious people)).


Humans often see examples of cause and effect relationhships ergo your above.

Quote:
It is usually easier to believe in things and take comfort in that, than it is to question things and accept you don't have perfect knowledge. We seek comfort and security because it often reduces pain and conflict.


The placebo effect has been show to be effective 10% of the time in some lab experiements


Quote:
There is no true certainty and you have to do the work yourself. Belief and faith are different from that. Nihil verum est licet omnia...


We are certain that energy cannot be created nor destroyed.


Were certain there can only exist 5 convex polyhedra of Universe.


Certainty can be a placebo effect even were certain of something that is not true.
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"Dare to be naive"... R. B. Fuller

"My education has been of my biggest impediments to my learning"...A. Einstein

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."...R Feynman
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  #12  
Old 17-07-2020, 01:31 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Because many that seem as if they are blindly believing have had direct experiences to the contrary. They are not blind at all.
(I am not a fan of Blind Faith, btw. I believe seeing is believing.)

Another reason is they are 'Right Brainers'...the artistic, intuitive side of the brain
Left Brainers do not understand Right Brainers.

Another reason - Right Brainers have a 'memory chip' in that Hemisphere that allows them to remember
past life knowledge they gleaned of how the Universe works...meditating for decades and/or sitting
at the feet of a Master many lives, for instance.

Left Brainers usually, imo, have been intellectual and logic leaners for many lives...making it very hard
to be flexible in matters of the Unseen.

From what I have learned? We are all in our perfect places.
My take, hope it helps a little.


When I was a child raised in the Roman Catholic religion, I firmly believed that eating meat on Friday was a mortal sin and that I could go to hell for doing so --- even accidentally --- if I did not make it to confession first. My parents believed that. My teachers at Catholic school taught that. My friends, who were all Roman Catholic , believed that. The priests taught that. The "infallible Pope" had stated that. Everyone I knew supported that position so I didn't even question it. Since we were not allowed to attend non-Catholic services, I was not exposed to other views on that subject. It was a "FACT" based on my conditioning.

Now, obviously, I know differently and can laugh at this former "deeply held religious belief" along with other previously held beliefs of a similarly dubious nature.

Like Miss Hepburn, "I am not a fan of Blind Faith, btw. I believe seeing is believing."

Fortunately, what drew me to my primary spiritual mentor was her opening statement when I first met her: "Question everything, even what I say, and, if a teacher can't point you to the direct experiences, then go elsewhere."

Seeing is believing, as Miss Hepburn so aptly articulated.
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  #13  
Old 17-07-2020, 01:40 PM
r6r6 r6r6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Seeing is believing, as Miss Hepburn so aptly articulated.


Humans could not see a picture of spherical earth until 1960's yet humans made such assessment long before seeing that picture.

Also these days we can see all kinds of pictures that are not based in actual 3D reality. So seeing is not really believing in those circumstances.

We have not quantised nor quantified gravity yet most scientists believes gravity { mass-attraction } exists.

I'm sure there are more examples I'm not thinking of
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"Dare to be naive"... R. B. Fuller

"My education has been of my biggest impediments to my learning"...A. Einstein

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."...R Feynman
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  #14  
Old 17-07-2020, 03:24 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r6r6r
Humans could not see a picture of spherical earth until 1960's yet humans made such assessment long before seeing that picture.

Also these days we can see all kinds of pictures that are not based in actual 3D reality. So seeing is not really believing in those circumstances.

We have not quantised nor quantified gravity yet most scientists believes gravity { mass-attraction } exists.

I'm sure there are more examples I'm not thinking of

One frequently performs "weigh and measure" reasonability checks and operates under certain reasonable understandings until proven otherwise.

However, keep in mind that there are indeed ways of "seeing" from a totally different vantage point whereby all questions are answered with no exceptions whatsoever.
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  #15  
Old 25-12-2020, 05:21 PM
Andy75 Andy75 is offline
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I think people are getting mentally lazy.
Most of people grow up following a religion, which, for definition, provides believes that are not proven and in that faith is based. Religions spoil our thinking education.
Then, when people embrace a belief, they don't debate it and they build an ego around it (ego= a person's mask to be used to deal in a certain circumstance): self-criticizing own belief means reconsider that ego's values, which means challenging own ego.
People identify themselves with own egos, therefore they tend to defend own egos with all their strengths, like a lioness with her cubs. That's something that regular people do unconsciously. Thus people defend their belief blindly.
I instead believe that the wise person is the one in control of own ego: one can destroy or create egos at one's convenience and has no attachments to it. The wise person of course defends own ideas and believes because the day he embrace them he decided they were correct; but at the same time he listens and ponders other ideas as well and, in case he finds betters ideas than his own ones, he changes mind.
Unfortunately nowadays there are few wise people.
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  #16  
Old 31-12-2020, 12:34 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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The Left Brainers want some sort of tangible proof since they have had no direct exp.
The Right Brainers need no proof -they have had a direct exp....at least I would hope they have.
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #17  
Old 31-12-2020, 02:03 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
When I was a child raised in the Roman Catholic religion, I firmly believed that eating meat on Friday was a mortal sin and that I could go to hell for doing so --- even accidentally --- if I did not make it to confession first. My parents believed that. My teachers at Catholic school taught that. My friends, who were all Roman Catholic , believed that. The priests taught that. The "infallible Pope" had stated that. Everyone I knew supported that position so I didn't even question it. Since we were not allowed to attend non-Catholic services, I was not exposed to other views on that subject. It was a "FACT" based on my conditioning.

Now, obviously, I know differently and can laugh at this former "deeply held religious belief" along with other previously held beliefs of a similarly dubious nature.

Like Miss Hepburn, "I am not a fan of Blind Faith, btw. I believe seeing is believing."

Fortunately, what drew me to my primary spiritual mentor was her opening statement when I first met her: "Question everything, even what I say, and, if a teacher can't point you to the direct experiences, then go elsewhere."

Seeing is believing, as Miss Hepburn so aptly articulated.

Interesting. I grew up in the Roman Catholic Church, and we ate meat on Fridays all the time. We tended to avoid it during lent, but even then if you slipped up unintentionally, it was an accident and no big deal. I later realized the range of beliefs that people in the same church held. They had a term for Catholics that picked and chose what parts of the faith to follow...which was pretty much all of them..."cafeteria Catholics". My mom is a devout Christian and die hard devotee and defender of the Catholic church, but it seems she is more of a picky eater.

She has more of a taste for the spiritual love based teachings of Jesus rather then the ordnung of the church. Gluttony has is own dangers....imo.
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  #18  
Old 31-12-2020, 02:04 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
Because many that seem as if they are blindly believing have had direct experiences to the contrary. They are not blind at all.
(I am not a fan of Blind Faith, btw. I believe seeing is believing.)

Another reason is they are 'Right Brainers'...the artistic, intuitive side of the brain
Left Brainers do not understand Right Brainers.

Another reason - Right Brainers have a 'memory chip' in that Hemisphere that allows them to remember
past life knowledge they gleaned of how the Universe works...meditating for decades and/or sitting
at the feet of a Master many lives, for instance.

Left Brainers usually, imo, have been intellectual and logic leaners for many lives...making it very hard
to be flexible in matters of the Unseen.

From what I have learned? We are all in our perfect places.
My take, hope it helps a little.

What have you seen that was not of your own mind?
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  #19  
Old 31-12-2020, 02:14 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
What have you seen that was not of your own mind?
Whatcha mean? Are you talking about imagination?
Hallucinations? Some made-up fantasy thing?
Like a fat person looking in the mirror, but their mind sees themselves as thin? (Or vice versa....all in the mind.)
Cuz isn't everything in your mind - even love or hate, the feelings from nature or a sunset? There's a mind- heart connection, right?

Whatcha driving at exactly before I can try to answer.
__________________

.
*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


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  #20  
Old 31-12-2020, 02:21 PM
ketzer
Posts: n/a
 
Bayesian theory dives into how credence in any given postulate, theory, or belief is built up. Credence is never 100% nor 0, and so proof positive or negative is never absolute.

Bayesian theory is of course just an attempt to apply the rigors of mathematics to decision making. Humans, particularly when engaging in a society, have all sorts of different reasons and influences determining what they will or won't believe and to what extent. What they already believe is a major factor, even in Bayesian theory, as is what others believe. Ask a human what they believe and one will often get a summary of what they think they are supposed to believe, despite the fact that their actions my indicate otherwise.

Seeing is as close to proof as it gets for many, yet they forget that what they see is the holographic world created by their own mind. A model of reality, and for most purposes a pretty consistent and useful one.

Yet as modern science and engineering brings in evidence that goes well beyond the resolution of the eye, even the minds eye, some refuse to incorporate the new evidence. Either ignoring it, refusing to look at it, or assigning it an inappropriately low value of credence. This despite the fact that they blissfully go about their lives utilizing the technological solutions that are underpin by, and incorporate and rely upon, all of that modern science and engineering.

Ignorance may or may not be bliss, but the two are certainly not mutually exclusive.
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