Accepting the role of Guardians of the natural world and our species evolution.

[weareunity]

hello all.

taking the title of the thread and simply adding ---if we don't we won't--gives us a proposition to discuss.

Any thoughts. Is it really that simple?

cheers.

[WildHairedWoman]

What is your vision of accepting the role of Guardians of the natural world and our species evolution. It seems like a very broad question.

[weareunity]

Hello WldHairedWoman.

The question kind of contained in the OP is

Unless we accept the role of Guardians of the natural world can our species evolve?---evolution first depending upon continuing to exist.

or

can a species which consistently depletes/destroys that upon which it depends survive ?

sthg along those lines.

the logical answer seems --to me-- to be No.

the notion that our species has some sort of ability to completely transform the nature of our existence into some other form of being which doiesnt need to give a toss about such destruction seems massively arrogant.

my own feeling is that our continuing existence and therefore possible evolution requires us to find/rediscover and recognise our place as part of the interconnected whole of the process of existence.

in "traditional" evolutionary changes such changes occur as a result of some often very small numbers of a species having a particular ability/mutation which allows them to better survive what may be novel circumstances of one sort or another. Such evoltion is like a consequence. some rather fanciful illustration of this is included in the narrative of the film "water world", when--if I remember correctly, the main character shows signs of developing webs between fingers and toes.
However. it seems entirely possible to me that given sufficient will power and application some species may have a latent ability to change thier behaviour patterns upon wholescale recognition that such behaviour patterns are themselves threatening their survival.
this would be like a conscious evolution for that species--and why not?

we have our own bodies which give us some idea and practice of this--if we choose to screw up our own bodies to the point of non function then we are stuffed. Technical fixes may help for a while just as they will re our depletion and destruction of the natural world, but ultimately there is no further "solution."

Some existing and some earlier cultures know/knew of this inextricable interdependence--not necessarily by means of what we now call scientific knowledge but as a result of thoughtful realisation of the multitude of the interconnections and interdependence.

cheers for now.

[FallingLeaves]

one problem is, that those who actually have the money and power to make the choices as to how to relate to this world in any big way, also have this 'gut feeling' that they are immune to any semblance of consequences to their own activities. Even in this world, such rarely face any real sanction for things done wrong ( except sometimes they have to pay out some of their money), but even when they do it seems like often their punishment is more like a summer camp for children than anything else.

Such people are not going to be interested in anything beyond what they can get for themselves in the short term... certainly not in the continuing survival of the species. So becoming stewards isn't going to happen unless the rest of us can somehow ignore the fact they have money and quit accepting it for services rendered when they offer it in the same way we'd find it offensive to eat dung.

As well some of the realities of the afterlife they have gotten for themselves give them more reasons to believe they can get away with ruining this habitat unscathed... of course they don't even see it as 'ruination' but as 'improvement' so there isn't even anything to get away with...

anyway about this reality that none of us really likes god said:

[II Chronicles 7:14]

and if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land.

sadly, simply trying to fix our reality yet again by becoming stewards for a change doesn't qualify as turning from our wicked ways, being just another attempt to try to make our reality be what we want it it be without any real understanding of what it already is... But if we do somehow turn and follow god... everything will be made well again without us even having to try... we'll even get to go 'home'.

[weareunity]

Hello FallingLeaves.

I share much of your assessment regarding the great hurdles facing our--and other--species in the now near future.

Yet am heartened in the knowledge that a great majority of unknown compassioinates have thus far managed to keep the planet show on some sort of admittedly rocky and perilous road in spite of the actions and behaviour of a relative handful of unscrupulous/lost/disturbed/ misfits intent on running the show as their own isolated self affirmation/self identity exercise.

However, the circumstances are changing as choices diminish and consequences become unmanageable--so we all approach crisis regardless.

Even in so called Hobsons choice their remains a choice. Self destruct or change.

Scary? Change is scary and the run up to the inevitable need for it extremely alarming--as we daily discover.

And yet, and yet----- xx

[FallingLeaves]

not knowing what is coming next is one of the scariest things for us. And yet our response to knowing that is what stagnates us.

I think whatever is coming next could be extremely uncomfortable... but... personally I think it will work out ok in the end. We may not LIKE it, but it will work out ok in the end.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by weareunity

my own feeling is that our continuing existence and therefore possible evolution requires us to find/rediscover and recognise our place as part of the interconnected whole of the process of existence.

Some existing and some earlier cultures know/knew of this inextricable interdependence--not necessarily by means of what we now call scientific knowledge but as a result of thoughtful realisation of the multitude of the interconnections and interdependence.

I agree that realization of multiple inter-connections and interdependence can lead to reverence for creation and gratitude for nature's gift . And that indeed can bring paradigm shift in conscious evolution of the species.
You articulated it nicely.

[weareunity]

Hi Hitesh.
thanks for the confirmation that what I have attempted to communicate can be understood.

hopefully the following may also be understood.

The observation of interconnection and interdependence being a characteristic of existence as one process can be used as an "entry" to a changed way of being.--a way of being which does not need to be searched for/sought as such, just simply accepted.

What begins as an objective observation of interconnection and interdependence as being a characteristic of existence as process---imo even if much of such interconnection and interdependence is not yet fully understood---becomes a "mind" concept.

Once the mind then realises that "it" and "its" accompanying physical being is included inexextricably in this process, then another doorway opens--a doorway in the nature of a changed perception of "self".--"self" as interconnected and interdependent part/component of whole, of all which is, takes shape.

A further doorway is passed through when mind chooses to behave and act in accord with this " fresh" ( to mind) perception.
This is not the banishing of "selfish/self centred" behaviour but the loving willingness/desire to now behave as being part of the whole--simply choosing to cross the threshold from mind awareness to total being.

This transformation/change by whatever name does not imo have to be considered a spiritual transformation nor solely facilitated by spiritual means/belief.

cheers.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by weareunity

This transformation/change by whatever name does not imo have to be considered a spiritual transformation nor solely facilitated by spiritual means/belief.

Ok fine . Let's not consider it spiritual transformation (though I myself is quite comfortable with word spiritual along with its associated teachings ) . Then what would you like to call it (like Renaissance, rejuvenation ,revitalization ,regeneration , rebirth , awakening OR simply no name with mysterious /mystical / mythical experiences ) . For learning I suppose some nomenclature is required . So suggest some word based on your understanding.

[weareunity]

Hello Hitesh,

No name, no label. just some thoughts to share. Thoughts seeming to be in a logical progression to me. The process of existence functions with logical predictability given sufficient knowledge of the characteristics and properties of the mix of variables which combine in creating consequences--which then in their turn etc. etc. etc......Our species has garnered a certain amount of knowledge from objective analysis and observation--imo sufficient knowledge to have confidence in the role of logical predictability in the process of existence, though (obviously) much remains to be revealed.

Perhaps much which remains to be revealed is not accessible by means of objective observation and analysis simply because at certain limits we are unable to be objectively seperated from that which we observe and attempt to analyse.

As a thought of considerable conjecture--the possibility of garnering further knowledge beyond this point may be dependant upon our willingness and ability to behave and act in accord with the perception that we--and all--are not merely observers of some phenomenon which we call material existence, but are constantly active components in the whole process of existence.

We might think of this possibility as being some sort of safeguard keeping further knowledge beyond our reach until such time as we have evolved sufficiently regarding our perception of our inextricable interconnection and interdependence in the process of existence.

Such thoughts might seem to indicate that there is some guiding hand regulating this safeguard. --and many will and do understandably believe that such is the case. Perhaps there is no guiding hand, but perhaps there is a guiding process.

The process of loving is indeed a great mystery, unfathomable perhaps but exceedingly apparent both in presence and absence--and imo--playing a large "role" in the process we call empathy. --- the willingness, the compassionate desire, the ability, to perceive, understand and know by means which are not wholly dependant upon objective observation and analysis.

It seems to me to be logical to suggest that knowing and behaving with the perception that we--and all-- are inextricably interconnected and interdependant as components in the process of existence will--and does-- greatly enhance the possibility of developing empathic ability.

And so, perhaps the existence of a "guiding process" is also entirely logical. Though such possibility does not make such a process any less mysterious--but perhaps that really doesn't matter, perhaps we do not need to understand it by any means which we have previously relied upon, but simply feel it and know it as our empathic ability develops.

cheers.