Bodhisattva Vows

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

I'm not so sure about a pathless zen. Dogen speaks of the circle of the way.

Dogen, in the Bendowa, wrote: "Commitment to Zen is casting off body and mind."

If your zendo is the kitchen sink, what is the practical relevance of the above teaching in your daily life? I asked this question ten years ago when I could not practice my zendo at the "kitchen sink" because the body and mind are components of the temporal world. If you can do this, you have the obligation to tell me.

[sky]

Originally Posted by ayar415

You are making a distinction between mind-made Hell and human-made Hell. The former is mental while the latter is material (and affects the mind also)

No distinction, each effects the other.

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by ayar415

Dogen, in the Bendowa, wrote: "Commitment to Zen is casting off body and mind."
If your zendo is the kitchen sink, what is the practical relevance of the above teaching in your daily life?
I asked this question ten years ago when I could not practice my zendo at the "kitchen sink" because the body and mind are components of the temporal world. ..

Sorry, I am under no obligation to tell you anything.

But apparently Dogen had a "breakthrough" when he was learning his trade in China, when he was practising alongside another novice. The novice beside him slid off to sleep and the master roared:- "How dare you fall asleep when seeking to cast off body and mind!"

My understanding is that Dogenp sought the answers to his own questions, and sought his own "time and place".

By the way, is your job here to continually poke at newcomers in as enigmatic way as possible?

[sky]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

Various commentaries on the Mahayana texts continually make the point that though there are in the ultimate sense no others, yet a bodhisattva vows to save them.

Ah but do the others the Bodhisattva is saving know that there are no others

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by sky123

Ah but do the others the Bodhisattva is saving know that there are no others

Ah ha! Like I said, its all about the two truths, conventional and absolute. They get very mixed up at times, particularly in my mind!

Empty-handed I entered the world
Barefoot I leave it.
My coming, my going —
Two simple happenings
That got entangled.

(Basho - apparently a "death poem"..... )

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

By the way, is your job here to continually poke at newcomers in as enigmatic way as possible?

He does this to all of us.

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by The Cobbler's Apprentice

By the way, is your job here to continually poke at newcomers in as enigmatic way as possible?

I was afraid that I could seem that way but you came across as quite masterful in the way of zen, and I wanted to learn. A sharp mind such as yours is a rare find, and I couldn't resist drawing my katana to make an iaijutsu strike.

No offense intended.

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by ayar415

I was afraid that I could seem that way but you came across as quite masterful in the way of zen, and I wanted to learn. A sharp mind such as yours is a rare find, and I couldn't resist drawing my katana to make an iaijutsu strike.

No offense intended.

No offence taken. I have a quite whimsical sense of humour.

I truly do follow the Pure Land way of "no-calculation" (it has a fancy Japanese name) I just answer pretty spontaneously. I have read a lot. It genuinely virtually frightens me that it can be viewed as "masterful"!

Originally Posted by BigJohn

Most people do not realize that Buddhist believe in Hell.

One of Buddha's sutta's, the Devaduta Sutta, talks a lot about hell. Buddha even describes it as full of fire which is odd as it matches another religions description of hell.

One can read it here: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....130.than.html

[The Cobbler's Apprentice]

Originally Posted by AbodhiSky

One of Buddha's sutta's, the Devaduta Sutta, talks a lot about hell. Buddha even describes it as full of fire which is odd as it matches another religions description of hell.

One can read it here: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipi....130.than.html

Obviously one fundamental difference between the various Buddhist hells and those of certain other Faiths is that they are not eternal. There can always be hope in them, their flames (or the poking and prodding of pitchforks) can always prove remedial. Thus the weeping and gnashing of teeth are not acts of total despair.

I have always loved the story of the Buddha himself descending into some of the deepest, darkest, blackest pits, lamp in hand. By it's light those there are heard to exclaim:- "Ah, there are others here besides myself." The beginning of the moral sense.