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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Spiritual Development

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  #21  
Old 27-10-2020, 04:25 PM
janielee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Being able to "see" the lower mind requires a degree of separation from the lower mind, and not everyone has attained this separation. Most people seem to be fully identified with personality.

The lower mind is a tool to be used when required to function in the worlds of form. When not required, it can be set aside. As JASG says, the mind of the true Yogi is an absolutely tranquil and crystal clear mind.

Peace

Thank you so much for your input and for understanding my question, iamthat.

It's been a long time but sometimes I forget that not everyone yields this perspective of being able to clearly see and "intuit" the distinction (including yours truly)

JL
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  #22  
Old 27-10-2020, 04:26 PM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by peteyzen
Its a good list, nice to see and delve into.
I love this comment from JUSTASIMPLEGUY From the Vedantic perspective clarity of mind is attained through meditation and purity of mind through devotion and service. That plows the field, so to speak, for the planting of the seeds of knowledge and in fertile ground so that they have the best chance of taking root. The Four Yogas.

It touches on, what for me, is the most important aspect of safe swift development, and that is devotion. The Veda`s speak of the divine coming to Earth to help humanity in the form of Avatars- beings like Krishna and Jesus - Forming a relationship with one or more of these beings, be they alive or dead, has, for me, proved the most transformative. They help every aspect of ones spiritual progress and life and subtly enhance the work we do such as meditation, mantra and prayer, acting like a magnifying glass, empowering our efforts.

Yes I agree, if one is fortunate enough to meet a real guru, it's mind blowing.

JL
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  #23  
Old 27-10-2020, 04:28 PM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
Everyone sees (and knows imo) if they take time to be and observe. In truth I think people know and see and this is an individuals truth. The person must be willing to observe. I think we are driven by energy. Take the example anger, what is seen. I have seen people so angry as they lose control or maybe gain control of anger. The energy drives itself. There is a part of nature that is automatic. People can get caught up in that nature of energy and it is very addictive where we find much of what we do is habit and very old. We manifest because it is familiar. We do not manifest what we do not know and without practice. There will be many failures at first with the new mind, We could use the word ego here. Here's an experiment. Next time you get angry try not to be, then observe.

I wish I could pin this. Thank you, lemex.

How do you perceive of the reprogramming aspect? The old, the automated, is so fast. Your comments are extremely valuable to me.
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  #24  
Old 27-10-2020, 04:29 PM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
Some words from Vivekananda on devotion.

https://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.i...l_religion.htm

There is then the Bhakti-Yoga for the man of emotional nature, the lover. He wants to love God, he relies upon and uses all sorts of rituals, flowers, incense, beautiful buildings, forms and all such things. Do you mean to say they are wrong? One fact I must tell you. It is good for you to remember, in this country especially, that the world's great spiritual giants have all been produced only by those religious sects which have been in possession of very rich mythology and ritual. All sects that have attempted to worship God without any form or ceremony have crushed without mercy everything that is beautiful and sublime in religion. Their religion is a fanaticism at best, a dry thing. The history of the world is a standing witness to this fact. Therefore do not decry these rituals and mythologies. Let people have them; let those who so desire have them. Do not exhibit that unworthy derisive smile, and say, "They are fools; let them have it." Not so; the greatest men I have seen in my life, the most wonderfully developed in spirituality, have all come through the discipline of these rituals. I do not hold myself worthy to sit at their feet, and for me to criticise them! How do I know how these ideas act upon the human minds which of them I am to accept and which to reject? We are apt to criticise everything in the world: without sufficient warrant. Let people have all the mythology they want, with its beautiful inspirations; for you must always bear in mind that emotional natures do not care for abstract definitions of the truth. God to them is something tangible, the only thing that is real; they feel, hear, and see Him, and love Him. Let them have their God. Your rationalist seems to them to be like the fool who, when he saw a beautiful statue, wanted to break it to find out of what material it was made. Bhakti-Yoga: teaches them how to love, without any ulterior motives, loving God and loving the good because it is good to do so, not for going to heaven, nor to get children, wealth, or anything else. It teaches them that love itself is the highest recompense of love --- that God Himself is love. It teaches them to pay all kinds of tribute to God as the Creator, the Omnipresent, Omniscient, Almighty Ruler, the Father and the Mother. The highest phrase that can express Him, the highest idea that the human mind can conceive of Him, is that He is the God of Love. Wherever there is love, it is He. "Wherever there is any love, it is He, the Lord is present there." Where the husband kisses the wife, He is there in the kiss; where the mother kisses the child, He is there in the kiss; where friends clasp hands, He, the Lord, is present as the God of Love. When a great man loves and wishes to help mankind, He is there giving freely His bounty out of His love to mankind. Wherever the heart expands, He is there manifested. This is what the Bhakti-Yoga teaches.

That is beautiful and not easy to grok. I can just see the many Western intellectual minds coming to sneer at such a statement, but such is life
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  #25  
Old 27-10-2020, 07:05 PM
lemex lemex is offline
Master
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,078
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
How do you perceive of the reprogramming aspect? The old, the automated, is so fast. Your comments are extremely valuable to me.
I appreciate that janielee. I think of karma as reprogramming so it'll happen imo. Thank goodness for that. I know I need it A probable reason we return having a clean slate. The reprogramming aspect is cosmic in this school.

Important recognition imo noticing the old and automatic happens so fast we don't perceive it. To me, the thought is telling me something, what it sees and wants me to see. It is in fact, much like a dream. We say dreams are so hard to interpret where I think the same is true of thought which can be just as difficult. I think there is (hidden) meaning to thoughts as well. Not a very good answer, I know.
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  #26  
Old 27-10-2020, 07:25 PM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
That is beautiful and not easy to grok. I can just see the many Western intellectual minds coming to sneer at such a statement, but such is life

I come from a Roman Catholic tradition, and it's ripe with mythology, ceremony and ritual. It's pure Bhakti. My mom and her two sisters were near Saintly.

I also have a deeply analytical and introspective side and I suppose that is what draws me to Jnana and Raja. Mix in Karma Yoga practices and all the bases are covered.

If one strips away all the hierarchy, interpretations and mandates of the Vatican and focuses solely on the core teachings of Jesus it's quite the non-dual philosophy. I'm no longer a practicing Roman Catholic, but Jesus' teachings have left a deep and indelible impression on my being.
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  #27  
Old 28-10-2020, 07:10 PM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
I appreciate that janielee. I think of karma as reprogramming so it'll happen imo. Thank goodness for that. I know I need it A probable reason we return having a clean slate. The reprogramming aspect is cosmic in this school.

Important recognition imo noticing the old and automatic happens so fast we don't perceive it. To me, the thought is telling me something, what it sees and wants me to see. It is in fact, much like a dream. We say dreams are so hard to interpret where I think the same is true of thought which can be just as difficult. I think there is (hidden) meaning to thoughts as well. Not a very good answer, I know.

That's a very good answer, I wish I had enough wisdom to plumb it through. Thank you lemex, thanks so much.

JL
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  #28  
Old 28-10-2020, 07:11 PM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
I come from a Roman Catholic tradition, and it's ripe with mythology, ceremony and ritual. It's pure Bhakti. My mom and her two sisters were near Saintly.

I also have a deeply analytical and introspective side and I suppose that is what draws me to Jnana and Raja. Mix in Karma Yoga practices and all the bases are covered.

If one strips away all the hierarchy, interpretations and mandates of the Vatican and focuses solely on the core teachings of Jesus it's quite the non-dual philosophy. I'm no longer a practicing Roman Catholic, but Jesus' teachings have left a deep and indelible impression on my being.

It's funny how some people don't need practice to be Saints

Thanks for sharing your experiences, I like how people come up through different schools and share in the ineffable.
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  #29  
Old 28-10-2020, 08:11 PM
JustASimpleGuy
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
It's funny how some people don't need practice to be Saints

Thanks for sharing your experiences, I like how people come up through different schools and share in the ineffable.

Perhaps not practice in the Eastern sense but none of them ever missed Sunday and holiday mass unless deathly sick. Observing Ash Wednesday, Palm Sunday, Lent, Easter and Stations of the Cross and especially on Good Friday, Confession and Penance, fasting before mass and Communion, not eating meat on Fridays, saying Grace before meals, prayer in the home including reciting the Rosary, Manger under the Christmas tree, midnight Christmas mass, icons of Jesus, the Crucifixion, Mary and Joseph around the house, etc...

Very, very Bhakti.
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  #30  
Old 28-10-2020, 11:38 PM
janielee
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Ah I see! Lovely
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