Continued discussion on fundamentals of mindfulness meditation

[Gem]

Originally Posted by wstein

This reminds me of a spiritual/metaphysical group I went to

Yep. It's common for meditation teachers to ask for obedience. The teachers I like will say we use this method, but they explain why the method is the way it is. Then you can discern for yourself, "OK that makes sense to me," and then go ahead from your very own understanding rather than obeying that teacher. If it doesn't make sense to you, don't obey the guy. You can only go by your own understanding.

If a teacher can communicate so you understand what meditation is, you automatically know 'how' to do it. A teacher could help with good ideas to refine a method and overcome problems etc., but you'd realise that it's sensible based on your own understanding. From then on you'll listen to teachers and realise hardly any of them understand the thing, and end up in your own private Idaho . I'm just saying because I have a hunch you'll understand what I'm on about lol.

[wstein]

Originally Posted by Gem

If a teacher can communicate so you understand what meditation is, you automatically know 'how' to do it. A teacher could help with good ideas to refine a method and overcome problems etc., but you'd realise that it's sensible based on your own understanding. From then on you'll listen to teachers and realise hardly any of them understand the thing,

<serious> Actually, a really good spiritual teacher does not need to understand anything nor do they need to communicate any information. It is sufficient to keep putting you back in front of your lesson until you learn it. The great teachers can get you to (or create) the lessons where you are most likely to learn them (on your own).

Interestingly, a spiritual master can put someone into a meditative state but that does not help them realize how to get there on their own.

Originally Posted by Gem

and end up in your own private Idaho .

Been to the actual Idaho, its filled with grasshoppers that make a big bright yellow splat on windshields.

Putting aside technique and philosophy the fundamental mechanism is neuroplasticity. By constantly returning attention to the object of attending - breath, sound, hearing, etc... - that rewires the brain, reducing the impressions and tendencies that give rise to a noisy mind.

Swerving slightly into technique that's why it's important to drop expectations and refrain from fabrications (e.g. indulging experiences) during a sitting. Technique is important. Very important.

[sky]

If anyone is interested in Neuroplasticity. HHDL along with Tibetan Monks and various Scientist have written some interesting articles regarding experiments etc: which can be found on the Mind and Life Institution Website and HHDL official Website.....

https://www.mindandlife.org/

https://www.dalailama.com/

I personally find it amazing that The Buddha (and others) knew that if we change our mind the brain will follow without having modern technology.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

that rewires the brain, reducing the impressions and tendencies that give rise to a noisy mind.

Yep. there is a habit breaking or a tendency breaking element to it.

Technique is important. Very important.

Yea, I think having a technique helps establish the continuity of work-flow, which you can schedule into a daily routine and progressively refine.

[Gem]

G'day. I just thought I'd pop by and see how it's going, and not much happening I see, so it's more like a reminder - 'this' is really happening and it's good to notice.

The thread is specifically about mindfulness; not about any old thing people call 'meditation'. That just means it an observation of what 'already is', and isn't what you purposely make happen.

I know seems simple. But I have noticed in the past that people tend to complicate things anyway - probably because that urge to 'do something' gives us some sense of ego-manic control. I was in that boat and have seen just about everyone else in the same boat, so I'm aware that the simple message of 'just observe' doesn't communicate very well.

In spirituality they like to be mystical and talk about non-doing, and maybe throw in a zen-like saying such as 'just sit'... I don't know about all that. I just know if you really want to know what is going on you have to 'stop and look'.

We generally use the breath to start a formal practice, and there are many reasons for that I could get into later on, and probably will because I always say the same things, as I already said (see what I did there?)... If you have the idea from a zen website or practically any teacher that counting/controlling your breathing is right for mindfulness - it's not. Mindfulness only requires you pay attention to the truth, as it is, in the way it's experienced by you. As soon as you add something on for yourself, you moved off mindfulness and into some other kind of meditation.

All meditations that require you to control, verbalise, visualise and so on are not mindfulness. All meditations that don't require that are mindfulness. Mindfulness is definable as paying attention to what is as you experience it. The Ramana self inquiry is mindfulness, the candle gaze is mindfulness, listening to the rain is mindfulness. Mindfulness is 'observation' without 'fabrication'.

You can't do and not-do at the same time. They are mutually exclusive, so it's best to know, as one of my teachers would say, "You just be aware and Dhamma does the rest"'.

There are reasons behind all this to do with the purification and stuff, and I know right now there's probably and urge to be like 'yea but, no but, yea but... and so on, but this post is just a tiny fraction of a whole thing. So, if the urge to rebuke comes up, just wait a sec and see if there is actually a contradiction here first. If there are contradictions then better pipe up. If not, then there's nothing wrong. I'm just saying this last bit because I know these threads tend toward contention as truthiness has a way of affronting the ego, but that's part of it, to see yourself like that. I'm just sayin' because I don't want the noise. I like that quieter mind which is self-aware.

[Gem]

I'm a 'private Idaho' kinda guy so I'm just going to follow through with this mindfulness thing since that's what I'm into.

In my last post I said that mindfulness is when you are aware of 'what is' without doing anything. Meditations that you have to do something (control, count, visualise or otherwise 'make it happen') are not mindfulness. On the other hand, if you are doing something, driving, sweeping, walking or whatever, mindfulness is doing such things consciously and purposefully.

For example, if you eat mindfully, you do all the moving consciously and intentionally, but you don't know what it feels like, tastes like etc. unless you pay attention. It's a mix. I make the spoon go to my mouth, but I don't make it taste as it does. The way it tastes, the texture of it etc, 'Just happens' in the moment.

In the formal practice, sitting to meditate, there is only the latter part. You don't intentionally move or think or visualise etc. You just observe. Feeling the breath is probably the best approach to start with... cuz reasons.

Sitting up is the best posture for formal practice, but you don't really notice why that is until a bit further down the road. I don't think fancy sitting like full lotus is extra helpful. I sat with yoga guys who are into specialised postures but they end up in pain and squirming around like novices. It's just the way you feel comfortable so you can sit without agony for like, maybe 45 mins or so. This isn't really a 'go with the flow' sort of meditation. It's more like 100% in. It requires complete attention. It's something you work on and refine, as one would practice and work on refining the nuances of playing the piano. If cross legs is too stiff and uncomfortable, sore back, broken knee or what have you, then perched upright on a dining chair is good enough. Laying down or reclining isn't as good, but it's fine. Since I think near enough anyone can perch on a chair, I say lying down is not necessary. Again, this pertains only to formal mindfulness meditation practice sessions. In general life of course living mindfully all the time in any posture and all movement is 'the way'.

So I'm imagining a person sitting cross legged or perched on a chair. The hands can fall comfortably in the lap or on thighs. We don't need special mudras or anything, so one hand cupped under the other in the lap is naturally comfortable.

It's not a 'eyes half open with gentle smile' thing. Eyes closed is best. Then attention goes to what your breathing feels like. That's it.

It's best to do each breath one at a time. I'm only feeling this breath coming in, just this one, I'm only feeling this breath going out. Then you know that you can observe just one breath without any distraction. Totally doable. If the mind wanders off at some time, no worries, just start again.

I know, even if you don't, that after a little while the mind will start thinking about adding something. Maybe you heard that counting the breaths is helpful, maybe you did mantra meditation a while ago or something else from somewhere, imagining prana or whatever... and you'll start to think, I should add a bit of that to this. The ego always wants something, but in this practice we give it nothing, so 'just observe' is the golden rule. Only conscious awareness of your spontaneously occurring real-lived experience.

Long enough post already. I want to explain more about the motive for this mode of meditation etc., so I'll get back to that another time. Maybe if you are pretty new to meditation, or have been led down the garden path before, just start with breath meditation... for 30 minutes or something... and see how it turns out. I also suggest 60 seconds of breath awareness before reading or posting on the thread, but I know I'm really pedantic and I need to rein in my unrealistic perfections.

[muffin]

Originally Posted by Gem

G'day. I just thought I'd pop by and see how it's going,

Good afternoon Gem

Slow

did wonder if you were coming back

[Miss Hepburn]

https://chriskresser.com/rewiring-th...caroline-leaf/

Dr. Caroline Leaf has done so much research, written many books on neuroplasticity....rewiring the brain.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

It's not a 'eyes half open with gentle smile' thing. Eyes closed is best.

I can understand why some practise with closed eyes as it can be difficult to concentrate when they are open so it is best for you personally but The Buddha practised Mindfulness with His eyes open according to some Suttas.....(Nikayas)

"So if a monk should wish: 'May neither my body be fatigued nor my eyes, and may my mind, through lack of clinging/sustenance, be released from fermentations,' then he should attend carefully to this same concentration through mindfulness of in-&-out breathing "
The Buddha....