Crazy Wisdom of the Zen Masters - Playful Fun Koans

[Still_Waters]

Koans are a highly distinctive element in the literature of Zen Buddhism. While Zen-like koans may appear in other wisdom traditions at times, there is no obvious parallel to them in the literature of other religions. They contain a message, but it is not a message that is expressed by way of a teaching or exhortation.

Before starting the fun, here's a few things to know about koans.

- A koan is NOT an intellectual puzzle.

- There is no single approved "answer" to a koan. What a teacher will accept as satisfactory depends on the student he is dealing with, the stage of progress of the student's training, and so on.

- The koan stories ultimately are not amenable to conceptual understanding and contain much that may appear ambiguous, paradoxical, and even illogical.

In this thread, don't expect to find everything straightforward -- it is not supposed to be.

Many of the stories that will appear in this thread will be from the Chinese Zen classics "The Gateless Gate" and "The Blue Cliff Records". The majority of these stories refer to later stages (breakthroughs) when the student has attained some experience of samadhi and has achieved at least a preliminary sort of enlightenment. The discussions will be challenging ... and FUN for those who dare to participate.

NOTE 1: In some Zen practices, koans are designed for novices and some of those koans will appear here. Feel free to share whatever koans have made a breakthrough impact in your lives. Keep in mind, however, that there is no single approved answer to a koan.

NOTE 2: Here is a reasonable definition of a koan from the Encyclopedia Brittanica. I chose it specifically because I wanted the definition to be as objective and general as possible. Hence, I did not choose to pick a definition from a particular Zen sect.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/koan

[Still_Waters]

It is generally accepted that Zen started in China (originally called "Chan" before it became "Zen" in Japan) with the monk Bodhidharma so his audience with the Chinese Emperor seems like a good place to start.

He was asked three questions by the Chinese Emperor who considered himself to be very knowledgeable in Buddhism. Here is an account of the whole story from a Zen site:

https://www.thezengateway.com/teachi...hinese-emperor

Although all of Bodhidharma's responses have depth (to the consternation of the Chinese Emperor), the response to the third question has been of particular interest to me personally.

Bodhidharma was reportedly asked: "Who is it then that stands before us?” In other words, "Who Are You"?

Bodhidharma's response was in itself a very deep koan. His response was: "Not Known" with alternative translations being "Not Knowing" (my personal preference) and "I do not know".

How would you interpret Bodhidarma's response? It apparently was not well received by the Chinese Emperor for obvious reasons.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

...
Bodhidharma was reportedly asked: "Who is it then that stands before us?”; in other words, "Who Are You"?

Bodhidharma's response [...] was: "Not Known" with alternative translations being "Not Knowing" (my personal preference) and "I do not know".

How would you interpret Bodhidarma's response? ...

This is what I thought first time when I read about this:

Bodhidharma's reply when the Emperor asked him, "Who are you?"
不識

不 - negative prefix, not, no
識 - knowledge, to recognize

My starting point would be: an ignorant; meaning: somebody who knows nothing

=========

Here's a commentary:
'English Translation; Bodhidharma's reply to Emperor Wu "不識"'

[inavalan]

Koans are a method of creating confusion, which is a well-known tool in NLP and hypnosis for inducing trance.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 3 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by inavalan

My starting point would be: an ignorant; meaning: somebody who knows nothing

Here's a commentary:
'English Translation; Bodhidharma's reply to Emperor Wu "不識"'

Most people would probably assume initially that Bodhidharma's response meant "an ignorant; meaning: somebody who knows nothing".

https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...83&postcount=3

However, I'm glad that you provided a link to an article that includes various interpretations of Bodhidharma's response. Although no one really knows what was in Bodhidharma's mind when he responded in that manner, which interpretation of his response from the article seems most likely to you?


Keep in mind that there is no single approved answer to a koan.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Koans are a method of creating confusion, which is a well-known tool in NLP and hypnosis for inducing trance.

Could you elaborate further on that point?

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

... which interpretation of his response from the article seems most likely to you?
...

Two of them attracted my attention "imperceptible" from sanskrit, and Mu for the effect.

The interpretation I previously posted is a couple of years old, or such.

Obviously we look at what the Chinese translator told the emperor, so we can only intuitively approach Bodhidharma's reply meaning.

In the mean time I figured out that those sages weren't modest, humble, but quite full of themselves, smart-asses.

I believe that Bodhidharma told the emperor something like: you have no clue what I am, it is beyond your comprehension. Remember that the first answer was that everything that Emperor thought that was worth praise, according to Bodhidharma's beliefs, it actually wasn't so.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Koans are a method of creating confusion, which is a well-known tool in NLP and hypnosis for inducing trance.

Could you elaborate further on that point?

Creating mental confusion increases suggestibility because the critical factor is bypassed. There are multiple methods: mantras, koans, multiple-thread or multiple-level stories, surprising or pain-inflicting physical gestures or verbal utterances, ...

[sky]

Zen Master Unmon said: “The world is vast and wide. Why do you put on your robes at the sound of a bell" ?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

How would you interpret Bodhidarma's response? It apparently was not well received by the Chinese Emperor for obvious reasons.

I dont know and will continue to not know until I drop 'I'....