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  #41  
Old 20-09-2020, 02:05 PM
guthrio guthrio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Busby
Your Message of a Master I have read through and even slept on it hoping to be able to pinpoint a response that would make sense.

Oddly enough as I started to read it I was immediately transported to the original moment I read 'The Autobiography of a Yogi' - the text had the same sort of clang. Reading further led me to the conclusion of there being some kind of common denominator, one which had triggered you to suggest me reading it.

It's quite clear to me that any response would require an immense amount of discussion simply because so many pieces of the web in which we find ourselves would all play a part.

If I'm not mistaken this concept of using the the universe's 'talents' was quite the rage about a decade ago. A book 'Secrets' (I think) took the world by storm and made all sorts of promises.

But basically yes, I'm sure that I can recognise 3 or 4 people I have known who were able to evolve within their own space by not being impeded by rules or regulations and by general dogma of all kinds. It seems also quite clear to me that these 'understandings' whether natural or learned can be as much negative as positive. Well-known musicians, singers, artists, business people, writers and so on practice the art of using the universe's laws. In some cases, say politicians, the laws are put into play in very negative ways.

For me it's quite simple, I'm convinced that mind is above matter, that all there really is is one large mind. I'm also convinced that human imagination is not ye appreciated as the 'driving force' of all that there is. The use of humankind's imagination has moved the organic Earth into the non-organic, the world of man's own making.


PS: that bit about the common denominator and your Danke Schoen made me chuckle, German is my second language and I love it, it has opened the doors to a much wider world than would otherwise have been.

Busby,

Bitte Schoen!

...looking forward to the full realization of imagination's positive promise.
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“Why, that’s true! I am a perfect, unlimited gull!” Jonathan opened his eyes asking, "Where are we?” The Elder Chiang said, “We’re on some planet with a green sky and a double star for a sun.” Jonathan made a scree of delight. “IT WORKS!" “Well, of course it works, Jon,” said Chiang. “It always works, when you know what you’re doing." (and even when you don't)
http://csermelyblog.tehetsegpont.hu/...ir%C3%A1ly.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COt1n3jDqA&t=19s
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  #42  
Old 20-09-2020, 02:15 PM
guthrio guthrio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Hi Guthrio...

I'm more a down to earth kinda guy. Let me know when you fly through the air flapping your arms, when you have materialized things from 'thin air', or when you have cured illnesses (not a headache or stress) with 'healing hands'. I suppose it is all possible and to say it isn't would be 'limiting' wouldn't it?

Meanwhile I'll go and do those very things in a video game!

Hi Altair,

Overcoming limitations?...workin' on it!

Toward that end, I think you may be surprised to imagine how a "video game" can help you do those very things! Enjoy!

Reference: https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...81&postcount=1
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“Why, that’s true! I am a perfect, unlimited gull!” Jonathan opened his eyes asking, "Where are we?” The Elder Chiang said, “We’re on some planet with a green sky and a double star for a sun.” Jonathan made a scree of delight. “IT WORKS!" “Well, of course it works, Jon,” said Chiang. “It always works, when you know what you’re doing." (and even when you don't)
http://csermelyblog.tehetsegpont.hu/...ir%C3%A1ly.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COt1n3jDqA&t=19s
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  #43  
Old 20-09-2020, 06:57 PM
guthrio guthrio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Yes, the Seth stuff is interesting reading. I read that with the advent of relativity and quantum mechanics in the first half of the twentieth century a good deal of new age philosophies and beliefs came about incorporating some of the weirder implications and speculations of what the science was showing. If Seth is not legit, and to be fair, it does take a good deal to accept a story like that, then those who created the material must have spent a good deal of time getting ahold of and researching whatever material was available in those pre internet days. I did not know much about Seth until the last couple of years. So when I started reading it I was struck but how much of what is said is in line with some of the conclusions that I had settled into myself from being interested in the newer theoretical physics and its potential implications. Had I come across it earlier in my life I would have most likely tossed it aside as nonsense.
One Seth idea that strikes me lately is the idea that we are multidimensional beings living more then one life experience simultaneously. I could not begin to explain it as it is really only something of a feeling, but I do often feel like this reality we are living is not a singular thing, but rather many going on at once and not necessarily being experienced separately. I have mostly interpreted the quantum wave collapse as probable possibilities of many worlds being filtered by consciousness into the awareness and experience of only one outcome we call 'real'. Sort of a hybrid of the Copenhagen and Many Worlds interpretations. Kind of like tuning a TV to only one show out of the many transmitting through the airways. In other words there is not really many different versions of me all experiencing those other many different worlds at the same time. They many worlds are there in the probability wave, but it is my awareness of only one of them that makes the difference. But lately I have been wondering about that again. Maybe if somehow, beyond my ability to understand it, there really are as many versions of me as there are versions of Everette's many worlds and I am all of them at once. How that works with me feeling so individual and singular in this one world is of course well beyond the capability of this one me to comprehend... if it is the case at all, but who knows what one cannot know.
Either way I suppose if I find myself in a reality and world not to my liking, then I have myself to blame as I either rode the crest of a collapsing quantum probability wave of my choosing to end up here (with all you crazy people), or perhaps I am the surface of that ocean and sending all of those waves to crash against the beach and watching them all at once. ???

Or perhaps more likely I am just going nuts, but hey, so is everyone else these days in my current apparent experience of reality, so why not.

....hmmm, I thought I read something from you that sounded like this "somewhere" else! Must be deja vu (doo)

At any rate, your words reminded me of this: https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...9&postcount=19
How is it possible to know your "future" ?
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“Why, that’s true! I am a perfect, unlimited gull!” Jonathan opened his eyes asking, "Where are we?” The Elder Chiang said, “We’re on some planet with a green sky and a double star for a sun.” Jonathan made a scree of delight. “IT WORKS!" “Well, of course it works, Jon,” said Chiang. “It always works, when you know what you’re doing." (and even when you don't)
http://csermelyblog.tehetsegpont.hu/...ir%C3%A1ly.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8COt1n3jDqA&t=19s

Last edited by guthrio : 20-09-2020 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Add reference
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  #44  
Old 21-09-2020, 02:11 AM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guthrio
....hmmm, I thought I read something from you that sounded like this "somewhere" else! Must be deja vu (doo)

At any rate, your words reminded me of this: https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...9&postcount=19
How is it possible to know your "future" ?

I gots limited material so I likes to recycle.
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  #45  
Old 21-09-2020, 03:33 AM
janielee janielee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Why thank you, my ego does love such treats, and is always ravenously hungry.

I do however have to be careful about how and when it eats, as it is liable to turn into one of those nasty gremlins and go about mucking everything up for the rest of me. It has done so many times before. It starts running about gobbling up food wherever it can find it and ends up, when its gluttony spree is over, with a rather embarrassing case of indigestion.



ketzer,

Sometimes I feel I am half crazy - stuck between both worlds, so to speak.

What you talk of (although far too intelligent for my brain processing power) is known to me through other Buddhists.

I believe what would be more interesting to me personally, would be to know this all for myself.

I am guessing meditation holds this key

Love your thoughts, enjoy your posts.

J.
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  #46  
Old 21-09-2020, 05:15 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Just because you asked ...

To keep track of the points you raised, I'll interleave my comments, with no intention of being argumentative. I just try to explain some of my views, with no intention of convincing anybody of their validity. Considering the way I arrived to them, there is also no possible intellectual counter-argument, or dogma/guru yardstick to measure validity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Hi inavalan

Thanks for the reply, though I am not sure I entirely understood. Anyway, to the extent I did, some possibly analogous concepts for that sand box might be the eastern mystic's Akashic Records or the physicist/philosopher's Block Universe.
The Akashic Records is supposed to be a repository of information. The sandbox I used as a simplified model is a framework.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
The path we trace through that spacetime sandbox might be thought of as what physics would call a "world line" through spacetime, and if asked they might say 'you are that world line'.
I wouldn't say I am the world line, but that that is a path through a probability multidimensional space-time space (sounds weird, but it is my best effort to be clear).
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Of course, as far as I understand it, that is a line traced through one "world", and if Everette is right, then there are perhaps infinitely other possible worlds in which one is drawing world lines at the same time.
That sandbox isn't a world, it is a framework. Worlds / realities are those created by each one of the participants in that framework (not only humans).

I'm not sure what is your concept of time, be it same or simultaneous. The way I see it, the clock time (experienced by those in the framework / sandbox, in which it is just a coordinate in the time-sandbox that includes the alternate probable choices) vs. the psychological time (experienced by those that are outside the sandbox), is similar to the dream time vs. the clock time.

I don't subscribe to the blanket statement that everything happens simultaneously. It doesn't.

But, the ripples of the events that happen now, the so called point of power, propagate instantaneously through he space-time sandbox / framework, both through probable futures and probable pasts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Yet, this Seth multi-me concept makes me wonder if all those other worlds are all that separate, or if they are more mixed up together in that sandbox of yours.
I don't subscribe to Seth's concepts as they were channeled by Jane Roberts. I just find that several of them are identical or similar to those I have. I believe that the differences result from the distortions Jane introduced, and those I introduced in the channeled material. Jane had a poor technical background, and was influenced by her understanding of various religious / spiritual concepts. Her early and painful demise, and her an her husband earthly difficulties were proof that she wasn't able to fully understand and apply whatever she received from Seth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Perhaps your sandbox analogy is more relevant metaphor, particularly if we are moving through that sandbox in accordance with the arrow of time. Starting on one side of the sandbox, and following that arrow to the other, there are very few paths that could have gotten us to the grain of sand we are on at the start, but countless paths to hop from grain to grain to get to the other side.
We don't go through the physical framework / sandbox from one age to the other. Each incarnation can start in any space-time point of it. You can have a life now, next one 10,000 years ago, right now, or 1 million years form now.

Even through each life, we go only one time direction because of our concept of what we can. I know it sounds at least intriguing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
So in that sense there is much more information and entropy in the direction we call 'future', but much less in the direction we call past. Then as we progress through that spacetime sandbox, always following that arrow of time, the number of potential paths that could have lead to the grain we are on from the side we started from grows, and the number of potential paths of grain hoping left to us to get to the far side diminishes accordingly.

So we might see, entropy always increasing in the past but decreasing in the future. We don't see it that way because of course when we look back our memory tells us that we only took the one path to get to the grain of sand we are on, but perhaps that is not so. Perhaps, just like one of Feynman's particles, we actually take every possible path to get there, at the same time, experiencing all possible events that could have happened along the way, and our 'memory' is just telling us we only took the most probable one.
Not really. Our perception of the past, our memories aren't fixed; they change continuously, as the whole state of the sandbox changes. We don't go through all possibilities, not even probabilities; we just select one, then go to the next choice. Our choice's ripples, as I wrote, propagate instantaneously through entire sandbox.

A good illustration of this is that if you talked to the surviving personality of a person whom you knew in this life, you'll find out that his version of the events you lived together is different than the one you recall, or that the "public records" have. This because the past changed in the sandbox, but that person's memories got frozen in the clock-time moment he died.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
That would fall more in line with the Seth idea.
I don't think Seth's idea is what you described; but I can say that from what I read, Jane and her husband didn't understand Seth's concept of time. They just took it as being simultaneous, which doesn't mean anything, and it is incorrect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Thinking about (as best as I can understand it) Shannon's information theory, entropy is analogous with information, and so perhaps if Seth is right, at a ?higher level?, 'multi-me' is living all those world lines at once, and amassing all that information in that me sandbox as I go from one side to the other, from birth to death. From that conceptual perspective, multi-me is not just one world line, but a network of world lines all leading to through and beyond the grain of sand I am on.
If I remember correctly, entropy is a measure of the disorder in a system, and can reflect the amount of useful information, it isn't really analogous with information, but that is irrelevant.

Not sure what you mean by "multi-me", but I believe it doesn't fit in my description of time above. From clock-time perspective you can say that there are incarnations of you all over the place in the sandbox; possibly some of them in the same clock-time moment, in different incarnations. But that doesn't matter, because incarnations come one after another from the perspective of the psychological time, which is the kind of time outside the sandbox, where we incarnate from.

Also, each incarnation creates its own reality / universe, in which only the creator is primary creation, and all the other "components" are secondary creations, a.k.a. "not the real ones", "copies" (not identical to the reference). My subconscious can perceive everything in my reality, but only the primary creations in (all) the other realities created by all the other participants.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Now let that arrow of time float about like the needle on a compass, and the possibilities of multi-me experiences become almost endless for just that one me sandbox. I can start at any grain along any wall, (or perhaps even in the middle), and pick a direction from my compass, and move to the others side, accumulating all those paths and all that information as I go.
The difference between what you and I say here, is that I say that you, as in an incarnated you, can take only one path in each life, and it is irrelevant what other incarnations of you did or will do, both from clock-time point of view, and from psychological time point of view.

And yes, you can start an incarnational life in the physical framework in any space-time-probability point, and you can go only toward whatever seems as future, because you believe that it is the only possibility.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
The upshot is that Mr. Murry doesn't really live his groundhog days sequentially, but does so all at once, and is perhaps only examining them as if they were individual sequential events.
In the movie, the weather-man experiences those lives successively, as we spectators see them too, like from the psychological time perspective. Each repeat of that day is happening approximately in the same coordinate in the sandbox, bot not at the same time, not concurrently.

Otherwise the movie metaphor is pretty good, excepting the cheesy reason for which he has to go through it. Even the fact that some of the other character react as if they have memories of past days encounters may be acceptable, because that is the weather-man's perception.

Wouldn't it be nice if we consciously knew, as he did, all that we learned in our previous incarnations, and knew that we are indestructible so not afraid, even if we had to listen every morning to Cher's husband singing the same song?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ketzer
Of course, there are still countless other sandboxes to explore so I would still, relatively speaking, know nothing.
If you mean other reality frameworks than our physical, I agree.

Too long. I hesitated to post it.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #47  
Old 21-09-2020, 11:31 AM
ketzer ketzer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Just because you asked ...

...

Too long. I hesitated to post it.

Well now, that is a long post, but I expect I have done longer ones so can't object. Anyway, as usual our ideas have some things in common and diverge in some areas. I don't know if I will reply or just leave it at that. Regardless, I do know that I will not likely have time to do any serious posts that require time to think for a bit.
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