how many people believe we need Jesus to be saved?

Originally Posted by justme50

Hmmmmmmmmmmm, I don't think so!

Perhaps you can share more or elaborate on why you don't think so?

You're disagreeing that man is touched by sin in all parts of his being: body, soul, mind, and emotions and utterly unable to choose to follow God or choose to turn to Christ in faith for salvation?

"The doctrine of total inability teaches that people are not by nature inclined to love God with their whole heart, mind, or strength, as he requires, but rather all are inclined to serve their own interests and to reject the rule of God. Even religion and philanthropy are destructive to the extent that these originate from a human imagination, passions, and will.

Total depravity does not mean, however, that people are as bad as possible. Rather, it means that even the good which a person may intend is faulty in its premise, false in its motive, and weak in its implementation; and there is no mere refinement of natural capacities that can correct this condition. Although total depravity is easily confused with philosophical cynicism, the doctrine teaches optimism concerning God's love for what he has made and God's ability to accomplish the ultimate good that he intends for his creation. In particular, in the process of salvation, it is argued that God overcomes man's inability with his divine grace and enables men and women to choose to follow him, though the precise means of this overcoming varies between the theological systems." - Total depravity, theopedia.com

Care to share your thoughts?

[psychoslice]

I love the result of the poll so far, its a sign that we are starting to use our brains to work out what we should and shouldn't do, yea yea.

Originally Posted by psychoslice

I love the result of the poll so far, its a sign that we are starting to use our brains to work out what we should and shouldn't do, yea yea.

I see no difference between then and now. How many groups of people can you determine in this parable? Quite the amount of people receive the invitation as conveyed in the parable below... and there will always be these groups as outlined in the parable. What Honza speaks about is central to sound Biblical teaching... and the poll reflects the groups as conveyed in the below parable.

Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.

13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

14 “For many are invited, but few are chosen.”

[psychoslice]

Yes many are invited, many are invited to realize that they are the way, that their true inner Being the Christ is who they truly are. This is the celebration, the bliss that awaits those who are lucky enough to realize this, we can only do this by the grace of Consciousness, go within and do it for your SELF, no one can do it for you.

Originally Posted by psychoslice

Yes many are invited, many are invited to realize that they are the way, that their true inner Being the Christ is who they truly are. This is the celebration, the bliss that awaits those who are lucky enough to realize this, we can only do this by the grace of Consciousness, go within and do it for your SELF, no one can do it for you.

They who come dressed in such a way have no robes! Doing it yourself would merit grace, therefore, you fail to understand the Grace of God, many are invited and few are chosen:

Romans 8:29

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Honza said a mouthful, which nobody here has disproved by Scripture.

Ephesians 1:4

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by TeeHee

They who come dressed in such a way have no robes! Doing it yourself would merit grace, therefore, you fail to understand the Grace of God, many are invited and few are chosen:

Romans 8:29

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Honza said a mouthful, which nobody here has disproved by Scripture.

Ephesians 1:4

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

When I say doing it yourself, I am talking about the inner SELF, not the carnal self, what you call the grace of god I call the grace of Consciousness, the same thing really, the only difference is that I don't hold to the belief of a separate god who lives in heaven. This is how we all should see the scriptures, from within our own Being, if we don't we are only believing secondhand knowledge from a secondhand book.

Originally Posted by psychoslice

When I say doing it yourself, I am talking about the inner SELF, not the carnal self, what you call the grace of god I call the grace of Consciousness, the same thing really, the only difference is that I don't hold to the belief of a separate god who lives in heaven. This is how we all should see the scriptures, from within our own Being, if we don't we are only believing secondhand knowledge from a secondhand book.

Another words....

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Which continuing on in Romans 8 Jesus is said to make intercession for the Elect. Do you, to answer the question in the Op accept this? Or do you like another mentioned reject this claim?

He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

It is clear to what you revise and reject, God's holiness to begin with, not being argumentative, but the parable really is precise to your point of view.

Second hand book? Just curious, perhaps you can share with us the tests you utilize for the accuracy of any historical document? Second hand? Perhaps you can share why you have replaced God with your own authority and rejected His absolute laws, but claimed vincible ignorance instead?

[psychoslice]

Originally Posted by TeeHee

Another words....

Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Which continuing on in Romans 8 Jesus is said to make intercession for the Elect. Do you, to answer the question in the Op accept this? Or do you like another mentioned reject this claim?

He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

It is clear to what you revise and reject, God's holiness to begin with, not being argumentative, but the parable really is precise to your point of view.

Second hand book? Just curious, perhaps you can share with us the tests you utilize for the accuracy of any historical document? Second hand? Perhaps you can share why you have replaced God with your own authority and rejected His absolute laws, but claimed vincible ignorance instead?

My authority is from within, call it the Christ, Buddha hood, or whatever it doesn't matter, the old writings of the past are now over come by a high Consciousness, a higher thinking. We need to drop the past and move into the here and NOW, to write your own scripture on your own heart, this is the true Christian.

Originally Posted by psychoslice

My authority is from within, call it the Christ, Buddha hood, or whatever it doesn't matter, the old writings of the past are now over come by a high Consciousness, a higher thinking. We need to drop the past and move into the here and NOW, to write your own scripture on your own heart, this is the true Christian.

I'll leave this at that. I am now convinced you have been thoroughly refuted. You have no robe!

Originally Posted by TeeHee

Romans 8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

love the humor.