Jesus, first begotten

[Amilius777]

Now that Easter has past I would like to make a thread on Jesus, the firstborn son of God.

I was going through some youtube videos by Rabbis on "Jewish Jesus" and "John Dominic Crossan's Jesus" and came to a startling realization.

I think when people color code Jesus to their ideas they forget that Jesus was a First Century Jew living in Palestine under Roman Occupation.

He was by societal appearance: A Jewish peasant, Rabbi, Healer, Pharisee Priest, and Artisan. He knew the arts of healing, he was a Jewish Teacher, a priest of a Pharisaic type, and social worker (carpenter).

Jesus was a strict observant of the spirit of the Law (Pharisee), he was a Healer in the sense of cleansing the helpless, ill, and possessed, he was a carpenter and peasant by state.

Why is this important?

It is important to discuss how the world has to stop coloring Jesus as another "Buddhist" as another "Hindu avatar", Islamic "Prophet" etc. He can be seen as anything but what he truly was is written above.

Anyway- let me move on.

Jesus was a messenger. He was a soul who left the native home of God (heaven/nirvana/Eden) and incarnated to help the world at large as a world teacher. What is strikingly unique about Jesus is that around 30 years old he began to manifest something that human beings had a difficult time grasping and manifesting. Jesus manifested the Original consciousness of the soul as it was conceived in heaven by God. This consciousness is the Word, the Logos. It is the divine wisdom of God.

The idea of Jesus becoming is far more in tune with ancient Judaism. To become is not the loss of the old and is not the gaining of something entirely new. It is being that which always was beyond past, present, and future.

Jesus was not born the Son of God (via virgin birth). Jesus became the Son of God, he became the Christ. This just means that Jesus became the long foreseen prophesied king. This king would transcend earthly kingdom and would be a spiritual king. Jesus is called "firstborn son" because in Luke's Gospel's original translation says: "This is my son, on this day I have begotten you".

Jesus was the one who could and would become the first of the sons of humankind to become the Son of God.

Now Jesus is called the new Adam. He is the first Son. He is the one who begins the divine eschaton, the divine clean up of the world for an Edenic future.

All the Saints after Jesus have all attained and manifest that same "logos" "word" "wisdom" , the Christ-consciousness. But Jesus was the first.

How did Jesus first become the one to do so? By making his own will one with the Father-Mother's Will. By manifesting that oneness, he manifested something never seen in the flesh or carnal mind. He manifested divinity. He is the "only begotten" meaning he is the only one to manifest the divinity, the God-self in carnal flesh.

[Miss Hepburn]

Ammy,
Don't you think there's just too much talk of Jesus already.

As in, enough!

I have felt this for years and was banned from a very active Christian Forum bec of my
Feelings...Jesus pointed always to the Father.

Post about my Father and I am THERE!!!

I want to hear about my beloved Dad....it is Him who I adore.
He is all I think about . It is Him my focus is on. It is Him who speaks to me and visits me.
It is my Father who I adore....see why I was banned...Jesus is great, but it's
The Big Guy I'm into...not my way advanced brother...love him...but ....he's my bro...

[Morpheus]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Ammy,
Don't you think there's just too much talk of Jesus already.

As in, enough!

I have felt this for years and was banned from a very active Christian Forum bec of my
Feelings...Jesus pointed always to the Father.

Post about my Father and I am THERE!!!

I want to hear about my beloved Dad....it is Him who I adore.
He is all I think about . It is Him my focus is on. It is Him who speaks to me and visits me.
It is my Father who I adore....see why I was banned...Jesus is great, but it's
The Big Guy I'm into...not my way advanced brother...love him...but ....he's my bro...

This is after all the Christian forum, Ms Hep. ?

[Miss Hepburn]

Hi Morphie,
Didn't follow your point exactly.

It is VERY Christian to love the Father...maybe instead of me saying
there is too much Jesus in Christianity I should have worded it better...ie:
We need more attention or recognition of our Father.
I think that would offend less people and still get my feeling across.
Nothing wrong with Jesus or loving him....just, "Hey, remember our Dad?"

[Morpheus]

Sure, I understand Elaine. "Our Father".
Christianity is particular though, to Christ.

As well, Jesus made it abundantly clear that He is one and the same Person, in the flesh.
"The Son", is only a designation involving His appearance into the world.

There are those, also, who equate the angel Michael ina sense, with Jesus. But all this involves the duality situation, no? Levels and orders.

Re: Reference to, "Your Prince", in the Daniel prophecies, and also the three, "Angels", which appear to Abraham in the wilderness.
Also indicative of The Trinity. Who Abraham refers to as, "My Lord".

Consider His statement also, to us...
"All power in Heaven and earth is given unto me. Go you therefore and..."

Sorry if this seems overly cerebral.

[Amilius777]

Your right i write too much on Jesus. I'm obsessed!

But Morpheus I hope you know that Judaism didn't have a Trinity.

Those assertions of Jesus in Old Testament are Fundamentalism at its finest and most ignorant of Jewish understanding.

Sadly A huge chunk of Christendom is antisemitic just because of John's Gospel which was either written by A Mystic or outsider Jewish Samaritan.

Jesus doesn't appear until he appears. If Christ has a presence as Savior in Old Testament it refers to Lord God or God the Savior.

Ironic how Jesus never referred to himself as The Savior. He wouldn't have. He was a Jew. Only God saves. The point is that God is savior in Jesus. God saves within you.

We all pre-existed as spirits. And so did Jesus.

It seems like you believe the Father is Jesus.

Impossible and heretical to who God is. You don't start from One into Three. You go from three into one.

Father (Source-Creator) , Son- Christ (Higher Self/Soul- Redeemer), and Holy Spirit (Creative Energy and Consciousness).

These three in one are The Being- I am , The Supreme, The God, The One, The All Essence. Three Distinct Relations but One Relationship, Being Itself.

[Morpheus]

Amilius

I think when people color code Jesus to their ideas they forget that Jesus was a First Century Jew living in Palestine under Roman Occupation.

He was by societal appearance: A Jewish peasant, Rabbi, Healer, Pharisee Priest, and Artisan. He knew the arts of healing, he was a Jewish Teacher, a priest of a Pharisaic type, and social worker (carpenter).

Jesus was a strict observant of the spirit of the Law (Pharisee), he was a Healer in the sense of cleansing the helpless, ill, and possessed, he was a carpenter and peasant by state.

Why is this important?

It is important to discuss how the world has to stop coloring Jesus as another "Buddhist" as another "Hindu avatar", Islamic "Prophet" etc. He can be seen as anything but what he truly was is written above.

Anyway- let me move on.

Jesus was a messenger. He was a soul who left the native home of God (heaven/nirvana/Eden) and incarnated to help the world at large as a world teacher. What is strikingly unique about Jesus is that around 30 years old he began to manifest something that human beings had a difficult time grasping and manifesting. Jesus manifested the Original consciousness of the soul as it was conceived in heaven by God. This consciousness is the Word, the Logos. It is the divine wisdom of God.

The idea of Jesus becoming is far more in tune with ancient Judaism. To become is not the loss of the old and is not the gaining of something entirely new. It is being that which always was beyond past, present, and future.

Jesus was not born the Son of God (via virgin birth). Jesus became the Son of God, he became the Christ. This just means that Jesus became the long foreseen prophesied king. This king would transcend earthly kingdom and would be a spiritual king. Jesus is called "firstborn son" because in Luke's Gospel's original translation says: "This is my son, on this day I have begotten you".

Jesus was the one who could and would become the first of the sons of humankind to become the Son of God

Several issues here involving contrariness, Amilius. You seem to be continually wanting to avocate the Gnostic interpretations? Or, insert Hebrew Rabbinic perspective?

But let's look at what you are saying...

For one, "to become", is involved with the constraints of, "The Construct", or material world and universe, no?
Namely, time...and, related space.
Which don't apply to the Spirit, do they.

You have modern Physics today telling us this, and then, also there are the prophecies in the Old Testament concerning not just the appearance of the Messiah, but, what manner in which He would appear, and the nature of His appearance, (the Virgin Birth), and His redeeming work.
Curious, why do you continually want to play these issues down? You have a problem with the miraculous?

Then, also scriptures of other faiths such as Buddhism involving, "Maya".
Lack of time is repeated in the many NDE accounts, as well.

All of which speak of, The Truth", as opposed to the illusion, or lie, ("The World").

He was more than merely the angelic messenger, as both the prophecies cite, and He Himself stated.
True? Certaiinly more than a prophet.
As written, he was found, also, in the Temple as a child, teaching the priests.
So..?
The prophecies come from the situation apart from the illusion, or, "Construct". Speaking of the greater reality of The Spirit.
True? In light of this, how do you justify your interpretation?

In Life between death and life, Dolores Cannon "interviewed" a subject under deep hypnosis. Asked about Jesus the answer was that "...Jesus was an emissary from another level of spiritual reality which is much closer to God than we are. ...he was from a level which no man before had ever been from."

"His death was entirely His own choosing." It was to point out man's injustice to man.

[Amilius777]

So true Bluegreen-

I believe when they say Jesus is the "only begotten Son" I think a nice translation would be-

"The only-begotten soul of God". He is the soul who God brought into the physical consciousness to show humankind how to make their will one with the universal Divine Will.

Jesus- Adam...hmmm. Sounds like a personal connection if you know what I mean

"First begotten. First and Last. Son of God. Only Begotten Son. Everlasting Father. Mighty God"- strange names attributed to Jesus...I wonder why

Originally Posted by Amilius777

So true Bluegreen-

I believe when they say Jesus is the "only begotten Son" I think a nice translation would be-

"The only-begotten soul of God". He is the soul who God brought into the physical consciousness to show humankind how to make their will one with the universal Divine Will.

Jesus- Adam...hmmm. Sounds like a personal connection if you know what I mean

"First begotten. First and Last. Son of God. Only Begotten Son. Everlasting Father. Mighty God"- strange names attributed to Jesus...I wonder why

What was said rang true to me. I think that long ago Jesus was human like we are now and has advanced to a very high level by His own efforts just as we will. I also think that it was His decision to be born as Jesus in order to help humanity take another step in the evolution of the soul.

"Know ye not that ye are Gods."
"Know ye not that we shall judge angels."

In my opinion, the names given to Jesus were given by the Church which did not want any reference to earlier religions and so made Jesus the First Begotten, Son of God.

1. The eternal parent wrapped in her ever invisible robes had slumbered once again for seven eternities.

2. Time was not, for it lay asleep in the infinite bosom of duration.

3. Universal mind was not, for there were no Ah-hi to contain it.

4. The seven ways to bliss were not. The great causes of misery were not, for there was no one to produce and get ensnared by them.

5. Darkness alone filled the boundless all, for father, mother and son were once more one, and the son had not awakened yet for the new wheel, and his pilgrimage thereon.

etc.

Ah-hi = a group of celestial or spiritual beings.


http://www.theosociety.org/pasadena/sd/sd1-1-01.htm