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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Non Duality

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  #1  
Old 09-08-2022, 02:32 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Free Will | Swami Sarvapriyananda

https://youtu.be/fvhxTVikbos?t=1126

Swami Sarvapriyananda speaks on Free Will and Karma as part of a keynote address during Anubhava 2020 (an event organized by the Hindu Temple Society of North America).

I bookmarked at the conclusion however the the beginning is a short but interesting discussion on free will. The juxtaposition in the conclusion is the illusion of free will vs. the reality of freedom.
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  #2  
Old 09-08-2022, 02:52 PM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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meaningful limited freedom

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
The juxtaposition in the conclusion is the illusion of free will vs. the reality of freedom.
I think this one is discussed earlier . Limited yet very meaningful and sufficient enough freedom is available to us to make a difference in the experience of all (including ourselves) involved. Absolute undeterred freedom or imprisonment is an illusion.
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  #3  
Old 09-08-2022, 08:13 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
https://youtu.be/fvhxTVikbos?t=1126

Swami Sarvapriyananda speaks on Free Will and Karma as part of a keynote address during Anubhava 2020 (an event organized by the Hindu Temple Society of North America).

I bookmarked at the conclusion however the the beginning is a short but interesting discussion on free will. The juxtaposition in the conclusion is the illusion of free will vs. the reality of freedom.

I am going to be very busy until tomorrow afternoon, but I will definitely listen to the portion of the video on free will. I am looking forward to this discussion as I'm sure that it will provide very intriguing insights into the nature of the Reality.

(By posting, I am now subscribed to your thread. )
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  #4  
Old 09-08-2022, 09:53 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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This is great. As you know, I have met Swami Sarvapriyananda in person on several occasions in NYC and had the good fortune to have sat at his table after the Sunday service.

One of my college friends, with whom I am getting together tomorrow during his break from the master's program, expressed interest in Vedanta so I picked one of Sarvapriyananda's lectures for his introduction. I intentionally positioned us in the temple so that we could exit through the side door quickly after the service and be the first in line for the vegetarian lunch ... with the intention being that we got a seat right next to Sarvapriyananda at the lunch. My friend was thus able to ask questions and hear all the questions being asked.

It was a great Vedanta intro for my friend.

I will definitely participate in your new thread and I'm sure that Zorkchop will appreciate us taking this discussion to another thread as both of us are inclined to do.
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  #5  
Old 10-08-2022, 08:05 AM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
This is great. As you know, I have met Swami Sarvapriyananda in person on several occasions in NYC and had the good fortune to have sat at his table after the Sunday service.
Yes, I remember you mentioning this. If it wasn't for the COVID policy I would make at least one pilgrimage to Central Park West. It's near Strawberry Fields, right? I'm unvaxxed but had a mild bout of Omicron end of January, somewhere between a cold and (mild?) flu. The H1N1 I had a decade ago was far worse. Went to bed felling 100% one night and literally took a good 15 minutes to drag myself out of bed the next morning with a 103.5 fever. It came out of nowhere and was the sickest I've ever been and by quite a bit. It's the first and only time I ever had (bad?) flu.

If you haven't check out the talk yet you might want to watch this part first. It's several minutes of the beginning of the discussion referencing the Gita's and Swami Vivekananda's take on free will (well, really Karma) and as usual it's seemingly paradoxical. https://youtu.be/fvhxTVikbos?t=217

He also talks about two approaches: God's will and higher Self. The prior is the Bhakti approach and the latter the Jnana approach. In the language of Karma Yoga it's Work for God and Work as Witness. I'm of the latter persuasion. Guess it's my tendency, my Karma. In this I seemingly have no choice.

It's kinda like Jon Kabat-Zinn relating his introduction to Buddhist meditation while at MIT and I paraphrase: "It was Holy Smoke, this is what I've been looking for my entire life!". My entire life I had an itch I just couldn't scratch until watching my first Swami Sarvapriyananda talk.

Last edited by JustASimpleGuy : 10-08-2022 at 09:02 AM.
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  #6  
Old 10-08-2022, 01:04 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 6 EXCERPT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

the Gita's and Swami Vivekananda's take on free will (well, really Karma) and as usual it's seemingly paradoxical. https://youtu.be/fvhxTVikbos?t=217

He also talks about two approaches: God's will and higher Self. The prior is the Bhakti approach and the latter the Jnana approach.


I listened to the video and it did not inspire me to contribute much to this discussion.

Although I once really enjoyed Swami Sarvapriyananda, I have found him to be more intellectual and scholarly ever since I discovered Ramana Maharshi and met extraordinary beings who rely more on direct experiences than on quoting seemingly paradoxical scriptural passages addressed to the masses. Sometimes, silence is better as in the case of the Buddha's Noble Silence on such matters.

As I mentioned before, I examined free will and determinism first in conscious sleep dream observance (as did the Tibetan yogi Milarepa) and proceeded from there in accordance with the "as above, so below" Hermetic principle. There are very few who approach it from that direction. The process then becomes clearer as best as possible.

Ramana wrote (Truth Revealed): "Only to those who have no knowledge of the basis of destiny and free will are there the disputations as to which of them prevails." I will leave it at that since I am meeting a friend shortly for breakfast/brunch.
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2022, 01:07 PM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is online now
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You may all like to hear what Rupert Spira has to say on this ~ https://youtu.be/NvU43SL-RIA (short, 10min video)

In the dream analogy, the dreamer (subject) in trance dreams, enacting the role as object which within the dream believes itself to the subject. This being the case, the next obvious question is ‘how may the object awake within the dream ~ surely, it’s the subject (dreamer) that needs to awake?’

In our dreams (Still_Waters - please help out here), what I have seen is that the sense of free will is absent but yet what is available is our response to whatever unfolds. If we cease to react, the purpose of dreaming ends and the challenges posed therein recede.

Taking the waking state to be a slowed down vibration, extrapolating from the dream state, a void centric or nonchalant view, fearless and desireless, simply looking, perhaps participating in an aspect of embrace-hold-release, moment to moment, releases anxiety of lower mind, since no outcome is sought. The shift is from grasping/seizing to flowing.
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  #8  
Old 11-08-2022, 01:34 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Still_Waters
Ramana wrote (Truth Revealed): "Only to those who have no knowledge of the basis of destiny and free will are there the disputations as to which of them prevails."
Here's the middle ground as expressed by Schopenhauer: "A man can do what he wants, but not want what he wants". It's the third option Swamiji spoke of called Compatibilism.

For instance meditation will subtly alter wants but it is not a direct willful alteration. It's lessening/eliminating unproductive impressions & tendencies and strengthening/creating productive impressions & tendencies, replacing one set with another. There's still a causal relation between impressions & tendencies and action, whether negative or positive.

That's what Swamiji was speaking about squeezing every last drop out. It's the rope tethering the cow. Lengthen the rope and the cow is still tethered though it experiences a greater degree of freedom.

I believe Ramana's point is true Self-realization is freedom from both destiny and will, "seeing" them both for what they are. Freedom from the rope and the struggle against the rope. Freedom from cause and effect.

I suppose the question is where lies the seat of that freedom, dint of will or of Grace?
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  #9  
Old 12-08-2022, 11:42 AM
SpectralDreamer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

In the dream analogy, the dreamer (subject) in trance dreams, enacting the role as object which within the dream believes itself to the subject. This being the case, the next obvious question is ‘how may the object awake within the dream ~ surely, it’s the subject (dreamer) that needs to awake?’

The dreamer and the dream are one and the same. Dreams are usually the unconscious trying to make the unconscious conscious, which is what dream interpretations are. In the dream 'you' are the conscious and what you are dreaming about is what's in your unconscious. It's the self trying to find a balance or resolve issues. According toJung anyway.
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  #10  
Old 12-08-2022, 11:57 AM
SpectralDreamer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

I suppose the question is where lies the seat of that freedom, dint of will or of Grace?
Or both? What was coming across to me very clearly was that what we're looking at here in the video is more Life's Purpose or Karmic Obligations, in that we are living through choices we made as Spirit and that the apparent lack of Free Will is our Higher Self keeping us on track. If we were to be honest enough with ourselves, had we the option not to go through with our 'bad experiences' that would have made a difference to us Spiritually, would we have chickened out?
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