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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

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  #21  
Old 23-06-2022, 07:39 AM
saurab saurab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
I would say a careful examination of experience indicates we're always Aware regardless of mind state (waking, dreaming & deep sleep).

interesting point and very true. we ARE always aware but the influx of thoughts dims the awareness a bit. Not only that, thoughts and emotions constantly overlay a screen of labels, concepts, ideas, judgment on top of this awareness. So, although we are aware, the intensity of this awareness is not always constant. Depending upon the appearance of anger, fear and other thoughts and emotions, we almost lose intimate contact with this awareness (not completely, but partially). (Like clouds hiding the sun, and later the sun breaking through).

Our awareness is conditioned by the body and the mind. This conditioning + awareness = consciousness (you can interchange the words consciousness and awareness. just mean that there is a pure way of looking and being aware, and an impure/distorted way of looking and being aware).
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  #22  
Old 23-06-2022, 11:57 AM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saurab
we ARE always aware but the influx of thoughts dims the awareness a bit. Not only that, thoughts and emotions constantly overlay a screen of labels, concepts, ideas, judgment on top of this awareness. So, although we are aware, the intensity of this awareness is not always constant.
Since this is the meditation sub-forum I'll point to effortless meditation. All of that "dimming" of awareness/consciousness isn't really a "dimming" of awareness but getting caught up in doership, and letting go of doership is letting go of the overlay of Ahamkara/ego.

https://deconstructingyourself.com/d...editation.html

Even though the meditation is called Do Nothing, you’re actually doing a little tiny bit of something: you’re paying attention to the feeling of doing something.

You’re simply noticing when you feel that you’re doing something and letting go of that.


Letting go of doership is tricky because the usual way we let go of distractions when sitting is going back to attending the object of the sitting and A: that is doership; B: there is no object of attending in Do-Nothing. Ultimately it's not about letting go of doership, but not getting attached in the first place or more appropriately Realizing one is never attached to doership to begin with. Letting go of doership is probably what some call a higher level or expansion of consciousness and the more one lets go, the more expansive it seems but the change is not on the side of consciousness.
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  #23  
Old 23-06-2022, 12:44 PM
saurab saurab is offline
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When Ramana Maharshi had cancer in his arm, and someone accidentally touched that arm, he reacted and said something like: Dont touch it. Somehow I am controlling the pain.

And what did he say at other times ? That "I am not the body". To me that is a pretense, a deliberate falsification of his reality as also being the body but perhaps not just that. No one who has a body is above body consciousness. you might say that he "has" a body but is not the body. But that is not only the case. If that was the case he wouldnt have reacted. Some of his awareness must have been entangled in his body, and so he was ALSO the body. Wherever your awareness goes, you are partly that also (but maybe not just that).

So, the idea that there should be no sense of doership is not correct. The body and the mind does everything, and the advaitists say that they are not the body and not the mind, but the actionless atman. But as long as they have the body and the mind, and a part of their awareness is sucked up by the body and the mind, they are ALSO that (body and mind).

There is another reason why the teaching that there should be no sense of doership is harmful as long as awareness also flows into the body and the mind, and that reason or danger is that you may relinquish all responsibility for your mental and bodily actions, by saying I am the atman, for me there is no doership, I am free. But as long as there is the body and the mind, one MUST take full responsibility of the bodily actions and the mental actions. ALL ELSE is either pretense or accepting the words of the ancestral sages and saints.
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  #24  
Old 23-06-2022, 12:58 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Again, my 2 cents

Quote:
Originally Posted by saurab
No one who has a body is above body consciousness.
Strong words, stated as fact.
I certainly know I have not had 'body consciousness' many times!
I also, have been in such wonderment and awe - I have had no thoughts...for awhile.
Sure, maybe it was after 3-4 hours of sitting in stillness and silence, and longer...but
hey, lots of things have happened in sustained meditation not mentioned here...that many would not believe or think were possible.
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Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
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  #25  
Old 23-06-2022, 01:04 PM
saurab saurab is offline
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A possible refutation to what I wrote is that for some people the body and mind follow the atman all the time 100%, so they are perfect instruments of the divine, and hence they body and mind is not responsible for anything that it may think or do. Then there is no sense of doership.
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  #26  
Old 23-06-2022, 01:14 PM
JustASimpleGuy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saurab
A possible refutation to what I wrote is that for some people the body and mind follow the atman all the time 100%, so they are perfect instruments of the divine, and hence they body and mind is not responsible for anything that it may think or do. Then there is no sense of doership.
Yes as in “One who sees inaction in action, and action in inaction, is intelligent among men, and he is in the transcendental position, although engaged in all sorts of activities.” (Bhagavad Gita 4.18)

Karma Yoga provides two main ways to practice this concept: 1 - Work for God (Bahkti based); 2 -Work as Witness (Jnana based). Since I'm drawn more to Jnana I take approach #2 and that dovetails nicely with effortless meditation techniques which also dovetails well with Jnana Yoga from the Advaita perspective. There's a method to my madness. LOL!

One way I approach it is like mindfulness meditation. There's formal practice (sitting) and informal practice throughout the day. Work as Witness is something that can be practiced all the time, or at least when one remembers. For me it's exactly the same as letting go of doership while sitting. They are mutually reinforcing practices and are grounded in Jnana.
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  #27  
Old 24-06-2022, 04:12 AM
JustBe JustBe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saurab
A possible refutation to what I wrote is that for some people the body and mind follow the atman all the time 100%, so they are perfect instruments of the divine, and hence they body and mind is not responsible for anything that it may think or do. Then there is no sense of doership.

Or

They are not attached to thoughts but fully aware of responsibility beyond their (ego) control or doership.
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  #28  
Old 24-06-2022, 06:19 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saurab
A possible refutation to what I wrote is that for some people the body and mind follow the atman all the time 100%, so they are perfect instruments of the divine, and hence they body and mind is not responsible for anything that it may think or do. Then there is no sense of doership.

What do perfect instruments do?

Do they get grumpy and angry and shout at folk or do they sit there idly without a thought in one's mind?

What I hear often is that there is a distinction made about not being the mind body when it's not even necessary .

There shouldn't be the premise that One is solely the mind body in the first place .

The statement is based upon a misconception and a misunderstanding of what One is .

From what I hear from folks that put their masters on pedestals have acted at times in quite a human fashion and in that expressing character traits that reflect anger and grumpiness, judgement amongst other things .

How many people know of 100% divine beings that are beyond personal responsibility for what they say and do?



x daz x
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  #29  
Old 24-06-2022, 06:25 PM
God-Like God-Like is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saurab
When Ramana Maharshi had cancer in his arm, and someone accidentally touched that arm, he reacted and said something like: Dont touch it. Somehow I am controlling the pain.


He also got angry at a shepherd who he thought wasn't looking after his goats.

This is the problem we have when peeps put peeps on some kind of divine status who are supposedly floating around in a blissful state forevermore .

It's not true .

Peeps come in and out of advanced states that is only natural .

It doesn't rain forevermore . It comes and goes .

Transcendence happens and then one returns to a state of self . A self that can get irritated . A self that can get grumpy .


x daz x
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  #30  
Old 25-06-2022, 12:20 PM
Still_Waters Still_Waters is offline
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QUOTE 22 EXCERPT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy
All of that "dimming" of awareness/consciousness isn't really a "dimming" of awareness but getting caught up in doership
Excellent insightful post !

As a matter of fact, here's a link to the whole post for those who want easy access to it. It's well worth reading in its entirety.

https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...4&postcount=22
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