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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Meditation

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  #1  
Old 26-03-2022, 05:47 PM
Michael K. Michael K. is offline
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Energy meditation ME reversed.

In forty seven years of meditation what occurs to myself the meditator is the question who is it that has been doing all this meditation? Has it been ME? what then is a ME in relation to reality? It is Energy that meditates am i then just the focuser of this energy? What is a ME stripped to the bone, so to speak? At the matrix of ME lies pure universal energy, so then is ME pure universal energy?
If that is so, then where do "I" fit into this picture?

Is this "I" the same thing as ME? Or am "I" just manifested Energy which calls itself ME out of ignorance? So many questions, what is the answer?

regards michael.
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  #2  
Old 26-03-2022, 07:01 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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In simple terms we could say that an incarnate human consists of Being, Consciousness and personality expressing through a physical body.

When I began meditation over 40 years ago I was ignorant of Being and Consciousness. I identified with personality. It was my personality which sought answers, which wanted inner peace, which aspired to states of higher consciousness.

Over the years I have realised that the personality as a separate self does not exist. There is just a collection of mental and emotional tendencies and patterns. This is not an identity, it is just a vehicle of expression for Consciousness, just as the physical body is a vehicle of expression for the personality. And Consciousness itself is a vehicle of expression for Being.

So who meditates? Or perhaps, what meditates?

Being does not meditate - it simply is.

The physical body does not meditate. It is simply parked on a cushion for an hour or so.

The personality does not meditate because it has no separate existence, although occasionally the mental and emotional tendencies may make meditation difficult.

So I suggest that it is Consciousness which meditates. The attention of Consciousness may be drawn to mental or emotional activity. Or Consciousness may rest in itself. Or Consciousness may rest in Being.

And when we look within and try to identify our sense of "I" then we discover that there is no location for this "I". There is just conscious awareness.

Peace
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  #3  
Old 28-03-2022, 01:45 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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The confusion in writing arises if it’s not elaborated that ME= manifest energy

It’s perplexing enough as it is, with the most furiously debated term being ego.
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  #4  
Old 28-03-2022, 04:12 AM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker
The confusion in writing arises if it’s not elaborated that ME= manifest energy
Indeed - the original post was somewhat confusing so I just addressed the question raised in the first sentence:

what occurs to myself the meditator is the question who is it that has been doing all this meditation?

Peace
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  #5  
Old 28-03-2022, 04:21 AM
Unseeking Seeker Unseeking Seeker is offline
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When we feel within, bliss magnetism rise
The conjured identity that never was, dies
Soul presence awakes from hypnotic slumber
Soma nectar dripping, the soundless thunder

At play within
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  #6  
Old 28-03-2022, 12:37 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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Hello Michael K,

Rather than speak to absolutes, I'll speak to your experience. 47 years of meditation is impressive. I don't know what your assumptions are or what your experiences are as all these frame your question, but I'll try my best based on mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael K.
In forty seven years of meditation what occurs to myself the meditator is the question who is it that has been doing all this meditation? Has it been ME?
Well yes certainly. Doing needs a doer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael K.
what then is a ME in relation to reality? It is Energy that meditates am i then just the focuser of this energy? What is a ME stripped to the bone, so to speak? At the matrix of ME lies pure universal energy, so then is ME pure universal energy?
If that is so, then where do "I" fit into this picture?

Is this "I" the same thing as ME? Or am "I" just manifested Energy which calls itself ME out of ignorance? So many questions, what is the answer?
You speak of energy but not of consciousness so I'm not sure where your point of view comes from. Consciousness is the background of everything. Energy is what comes out of consciousness. Consciousness is "awareness". The words "I am" distinguish an "I" from an "am" (pure existence beyond ego). In meditation whenever I enter the consciousness space, my "I" is resonating (I don't lose my "I") but the space itself is always there, always pure, always perfect, and my "I" changes the deeper I go into it. It becomes a more humble "I", an "I" that doesn't want to think or even breathe. That's why this is called the breathless state. The depths of this experience are endless. There is so much to explore in there, and I need an "I" to explore it.

The pure universal energy, or "matrix" as you put it, I understand in different ways. Again I don't know you or your theological or experiential background. I understand energy as consciousness in manifestion. I love how this was expressed above by Unseeking Seeker as "ME = manifested energy". Part of what happens as meditation takes us deeper into the consciousness space is that the individual sense of "I"-ness changes into a "we". So my sense of the energy matrix is that we are all together (every universe with everything and everyone in it, past, present and future) is the collective "we" that the enlightened ones speak about as Higher Self, and identify with as their transformed "I". This enlightened "I" becomes Self seeing Self everywhere. It's unity consciousness. But it still exists as an "I" within a vast consciousness space that some call God but it is the Source of everything. It's impossible to merge completely into it without losing an "I". The best we can experience (in any form) is a transcendental "I" but in order to experience anything we need some kind of "I".

Let it become a pure "I" in service to the Higher Self. That's where our individual "I" fits into the picture.

I hope this makes sense, but it should as you have been meditating 47 years.
Terminologies may be different, models may be used that are different, but the experience is universal.

Uma
p.s. I think you will find a lot of this talk speaking directly to your questions (see my post here in case you're interested).

Last edited by Uma : 28-03-2022 at 02:17 PM.
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  #7  
Old 28-03-2022, 02:40 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael K.
... Has it been ME? what then is a ME in relation to reality?

Or am "I" just manifested Energy which calls itself ME out of ignorance?
Never saw this post!
Wow, ha, 49 yrs for me, hahahaha Naturally, I can only speak for myself; how I exp or understand things.
Is it the truth, well, it has been for me.
First, I don't ask many questions...I don't care about understanding much..is that weird...probably for most people.
Adding to the above posts-:)

Reality, capital R....who am I in relationship to Reality?
I will use instead of Reality - Who am I to the All That Is? To this God?
To this Spiritual Entity like an unimaginable vast Star Trek-like 'Being', Mind, Consciousness with no physical 'form', beyond anything
our teeny pea brain with these woefully limited senses could figure out?
Like an ant understanding algebra!

Well this is how I see it - I am a created little, individualized being. I exist for the pleasure of The One.
Planned forgetfulness included...rather than ignorance.

The One, alone, could and did create 'company'; company with individual choice to romp and play and explore -
and this One experiences all these adventures, through me and the tree and the planets and the Super Nova...
all of it.
To me, then there is the icing on the cake for 'this Creator'...when an individualized soul, with choices,
stops romping...and
comes to a point that he acknowledges this Creator, by grace gets a glimpse of this Creator...and
falls madly in awe and in love with this Being.
This is what the Creator has waited for and will wait for forever...This Being, with no gender, has a bottomless
well of a Sacred Heart that wants more and more and more love, freely given.
This is what this Creator waits for ultimately. (I'm not making this up...this comes from a direct revelation given,
suddenly and inexplicably.)

Take it or leave it. :)
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  #8  
Old 28-03-2022, 07:27 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn
To me, then there is the icing on the cake for 'this Creator'...when an individualized soul, with choices,
stops romping...and
comes to a point that he acknowledges this Creator, by grace gets a glimpse of this Creator...and
falls madly in awe and in love with this Being.
This is what the Creator has waited for and will wait for forever...This Being, with no gender, has a bottomless
well of a Sacred Heart that wants more and more and more love, freely given.
This is what this Creator waits for ultimately. ...

I’ll take some of that icing love the way you phrase it Miss Hepburn
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  #9  
Old 28-03-2022, 11:09 PM
Michael K. Michael K. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uma
Hello Michael K,
Rather than speak to absolutes, I'll speak to your experience. 47 years of meditation is impressive. I don't know what your assumptions are or what your experiences are as all these frame your question, but I'll try my best based on mine.
Well yes certainly. Doing needs a doer....
Thanks UMA for your detailed response to my post, very interesting, I see energy as MOTION arising out of the Primordial INTENTION THOUGHT WAVE of BRAHMAN motion was born out of motionlessness, and became pure ENERGY which when is REFLECTED becomes consciousness, ENERGY is not a relection of something, consciousness is a reflection of awareness, you can have awareness without consciousness, but you cannot have consciousness without awareness,
regards michael.
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  #10  
Old 29-03-2022, 12:13 PM
Uma Uma is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael K.
Thanks UMA for your detailed response to my post, very interesting, I see energy as MOTION arising out of the Primordial INTENTION THOUGHT WAVE of BRAHMAN motion was born out of motionlessness, and became pure ENERGY which when is REFLECTED becomes consciousness, ENERGY is not a relection of something, consciousness is a reflection of awareness, you can have awareness without consciousness, but you cannot have consciousness without awareness,
regards michael.

Thanks Michael. I wouldn't describe consciousness and awareness as separate things but as synonymous, but that's the teaching I'm coming from. With energy and consciousness it's a chicken and egg question isn't it? Really the two are different expressions of the one. I'm more interested in the knowledge that I can put into practice though. When energy stills and more of the pure consciousness reveals itself, that's what puts me into deeper witness mode. When pure consciousness manifests as energy that puts me into deeper co-creative mode. I'm not sure how your theory works in a practical way for you. For something to have value for me, it needs to be practical.
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