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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #1  
Old 28-03-2021, 06:59 AM
inavalan inavalan is offline
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Forgiveness

Forgive those people who have caused harm in your life. Forgiveness, however, is a misunderstood concept. Thanks to self-help and new age movements, it is often thought to be about accepting what has happened to you. No. Forgiveness doesn’t mean you need to accept what a person has done to you. It just means that you are not willing to carry the emotional burden caused by that person anymore.

Even realizing this, there are some people who are not willing to forgive people in their lives. But think of it this way: you are only doing this to yourself. By constantly thinking about revenge and what that person did to you, those people have already won. In reality, the best revenge is indifference. You just don’t allow these people to continue to hurt you or make any difference in your life.
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Everything expressed here is what I believe. Keep that in mind when you read my post, as I kept it in mind when I wrote it. I don't parrot others. Most of my spiritual beliefs come from direct channeling guidance. I have no interest in arguing whose belief is right, and whose is wrong. I'm here just to express my opinions, and read about others'.
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  #2  
Old 28-03-2021, 01:07 PM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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forgiveness

Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Forgive those people who have caused harm in your life. Forgiveness, however, is a misunderstood concept. Thanks to self-help and new age movements, it is often thought to be about accepting what has happened to you. No. Forgiveness doesn’t mean you need to accept what a person has done to you. It just means that you are not willing to carry the emotional burden caused by that person anymore.

Even realizing this, there are some people who are not willing to forgive people in their lives. But think of it this way: you are only doing this to yourself. By constantly thinking about revenge and what that person did to you, those people have already won. In reality, the best revenge is indifference. You just don’t allow these people to continue to hurt you or make any difference in your life.

Forgiveness is an important virtue the importance of which is stressed in almost all cultures. Indeed carrying a grudge against someone for long time is more punishment to self than anybody else .

While there is no undenying the importance of fogiveness , its application can still be situational and deserves following points of consideration.

1. Forgiveness of powerful who can inflict equal if not more collateral damage /pain to the perpetrators of wrong/evil is praise worthy. Normal cases where people have no option but to accept the wrong should not be allowed to be sold or /eulogized as virtue of forgiveness.
2. Intensity / severity/ implications of wrong or evil done must also be taken into account . If forgiveness sets a wrong precedent of doing first wrong and then asking for forgiveness , it must not and should not be used .
3. While forgiving also one should know that wrong doers have repentance and have no hidden desire to repeat it . Forgiving wrong person other innocents may have to pay the price later.
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  #3  
Old 28-03-2021, 01:39 PM
Native spirit Native spirit is offline
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To forgive is only the begining and as much as you say it does not mean you really believe it.
some things people go through to ask them to forgive would stick in their throats some things run to deep.

But i have always said forgiving is easy forgetting is a different ball game.


Namaste
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  #4  
Old 28-03-2021, 03:33 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
While forgiving also one should know that wrong doers have repentance and have no hidden desire to repeat it . Forgiving wrong person other innocents may have to pay the price later.
This particular thought should not be part of forgiving. The reference of repentance is not about forgiveness. Is forgiving about conditions. Forgiving isn't only about one person being right and the other person being wrong. It is about healing for both. If a person asks for forgiveness would it be given if repentance weren't attached. Many people hang on to old memories and an illusion. This is the first question, are we talking about something that no longer happens where we think we can forgive. I must say I like the point made, forgiveness applies when asked and as said it is not just about accepting what is done but also was done. It is about change. Often we are talking about two conditions, not only one.
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  #5  
Old 29-03-2021, 08:04 AM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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forgiveness

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Originally Posted by lemex
This particular thought should not be part of forgiving. The reference of repentance is not about forgiveness. Is forgiving about conditions. Forgiving isn't only about one person being right and the other person being wrong. It is about healing for both. If a person asks for forgiveness would it be given if repentance weren't attached. Many people hang on to old memories and an illusion. This is the first question, are we talking about something that no longer happens where we think we can forgive. I must say I like the point made, forgiveness applies when asked and as said it is not just about accepting what is done but also was done. It is about change. Often we are talking about two conditions, not only one.

To illustrate my point , i would take an example . If u are a shop owner and u see a poor boy shoplifting articles from your shop and he is caught red handed in camera and now u have the power to hand over him to the police, now here u can forgive the boy here if you fill genuinely
1. that boy's condition was pretty bad and he stole goods as a last resort
2. that boy genuinely feels he has done something wrong
3. that he promises not to repeat it and earn his bread by working hard

You can give him a chance and let him go scotfree . Otherwise in the absence of repentance there is no point to forgive him and not to handover him to police for further prosecution . If you let him go without ascertaining such issues , he may become more seasoned thief in future and indirectly in a small way u too may be party to it .

So as said dynamics is pretty complex. In real life it can be more complicated than this . I am all for forgiveness unconditionally . But situations may call for different treatment and forgiving here would really not heal the wrong-doer as expected by you.

In life we are not alone and every action of ours has re-actions and for which we too may responsible albeit partially in small measure .

If u have any situation /example in mind , u can share it . And probably we can come up with better rephrasing / elaboration of such situations .

Last edited by HITESH SHAH : 29-03-2021 at 09:11 AM.
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  #6  
Old 31-03-2021, 04:36 PM
lemex lemex is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
To illustrate my point , i would take an example . If u are a shop owner and u see a poor boy shoplifting articles from your shop and he is caught red handed in camera and now u have the power to hand over him to the police, now here u can forgive the boy here if you fill genuinely
1. that boy's condition was pretty bad and he stole goods as a last resort
2. that boy genuinely feels he has done something wrong
3. that he promises not to repeat it and earn his bread by working hard

You can give him a chance and let him go scotfree . Otherwise in the absence of repentance there is no point to forgive him and not to handover him to police for further prosecution . If you let him go without ascertaining such issues , he may become more seasoned thief in future and indirectly in a small way u too may be party to it .

So as said dynamics is pretty complex. In real life it can be more complicated than this . I am all for forgiveness unconditionally . But situations may call for different treatment and forgiving here would really not heal the wrong-doer as expected by you.

In life we are not alone and every action of ours has re-actions and for which we too may responsible albeit partially in small measure .

If u have any situation /example in mind , u can share it . And probably we can come up with better rephrasing / elaboration of such situations .
It isn't clear if being done as a last resort justifies it, forgiveness. Justification isn't repenting. But if I am a shop owner and I happen to catch a person, I might even let them keep it or not. Catching them even changes the dynamic of it, there is awareness and that can change their life and the individual must deal with it openly now. I would look at the communication. Back in the day we use to call the parents and it would be resolved. Still the power is with the owner. In the example I'd seek an alternative way even allowing choice. I guess it's what one deems as best. No escaping cause and effect and the future it leads to. I don't look for repentance, this is me saying what they have to do immediately projecting what I say they must do, but if it's not a big deal allowing enlightenment and observation. Even universe may be involved. Every person who is forgiven when they feel they shouldn't will at some time appreciate probably through experience seeing the effects of that, which leads to cause and effect which you will never know happened. I would simply say they are aware of what forgiveness is and did when one is mindful. Actually in the case given I would blame the parents and society more. If there are other solutions I would consider them first. Each person must deal with themselves and that is not getting off scot-free if change happens. Of course there is not only one way.
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  #7  
Old 31-03-2021, 05:55 PM
HITESH SHAH HITESH SHAH is offline
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forgiveness

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
It isn't clear if being done as a last resort justifies it, forgiveness. Justification isn't repenting. But if I am a shop owner and I happen to catch a person, I might even let them keep it or not. Catching them even changes the dynamic of it, there is awareness and that can change their life and the individual must deal with it openly now. I would look at the communication. Back in the day we use to call the parents and it would be resolved. Still the power is with the owner. In the example I'd seek an alternative way even allowing choice.

You rightly listed your preferences . Letting the stolen articles with the boy is one of the option I listed (if felt his condition really warrants that) . There can be really many such options if we get into details like making him work in the shop for the value of the article and letting him take the article respectfully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemex
I guess it's what one deems as best. No escaping cause and effect and the future it leads to. I don't look for repentance, this is me saying what they have to do immediately projecting what I say they must do, but if it's not a big deal allowing enlightenment and observation. Even universe may be involved. Every person who is forgiven when they feel they shouldn't will at some time appreciate probably through experience seeing the effects of that, which leads to cause and effect which you will never know happened. I would simply say they are aware of what forgiveness is and did when one is mindful. Actually in the case given I would blame the parents and society more. If there are other solutions I would consider them first. Each person must deal with themselves and that is not getting off scot-free if change happens. Of course there is not only one way.

My point is to be responsible / alert while being noble (when stressing repentance before forgiveness). Being noble at heart, forgiveness without condition like repentance is always a great and I appreciate such bigheartedness of yours. In the ultimate analysis , all such nuances are very difficult to be gauged . Only self and God can judge it perfectly. Others can at best gauge something from limited details he/she may have based on their perception filter.
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  #8  
Old 28-03-2021, 02:47 PM
Elfin
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Forgive those people who have caused harm in your life. Forgiveness, however, is a misunderstood concept. Thanks to self-help and new age movements, it is often thought to be about accepting what has happened to you. No. Forgiveness doesn’t mean you need to accept what a person has done to you. It just means that you are not willing to carry the emotional burden caused by that person anymore.

Even realizing this, there are some people who are not willing to forgive people in their lives. But think of it this way: you are only doing this to yourself. By constantly thinking about revenge and what that person did to you, those people have already won. In reality, the best revenge is indifference. You just don’t allow these people to continue to hurt you or make any difference in your life.
I could not agree more.
My sentiments exactly ...
Holding onto all of that is what keeps us in the black hole
In order to climb out, towards the light we need to let go...
As you correctly say...
To cling into their wrongdoing, is the pain we hold that stops us from moving on.
...........
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  #9  
Old 28-03-2021, 03:02 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Forgive those people who have caused harm in your life. Forgiveness, however, is a misunderstood concept. Thanks to self-help and new age movements, it is often thought to be about accepting what has happened to you. No. Forgiveness doesn’t mean you need to accept what a person has done to you. It just means that you are not willing to carry the emotional burden caused by that person anymore.

Even realizing this, there are some people who are not willing to forgive people in their lives. But think of it this way: you are only doing this to yourself. By constantly thinking about revenge and what that person did to you, those people have already won. In reality, the best revenge is indifference. You just don’t allow these people to continue to hurt you or make any difference in your life.

Very interesting perspective. I want to believe it's true but it's easier said than done, as indifference can quickly become ''just let it slip''. Some people deserve punishment because they commit a crime, such as murder. How does indifference serve in that case? The above perspective implies a rational coldness to problems and I'm not sure that can always be reached.
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Old 28-03-2021, 03:29 PM
Moonglow Moonglow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inavalan
Forgive those people who have caused harm in your life. Forgiveness, however, is a misunderstood concept. Thanks to self-help and new age movements, it is often thought to be about accepting what has happened to you. No. Forgiveness doesn’t mean you need to accept what a person has done to you. It just means that you are not willing to carry the emotional burden caused by that person anymore.

Even realizing this, there are some people who are not willing to forgive people in their lives. But think of it this way: you are only doing this to yourself. By constantly thinking about revenge and what that person did to you, those people have already won. In reality, the best revenge is indifference. You just don’t allow these people to continue to hurt you or make any difference in your life.

I feel that there is a bit of a misunderstanding in regards to “forgiving” someone.
I relate to it not saying that the wrong/hurt/ whatever may have been done or inflicted is OK, but releasing myself from the pain and control the other may have tried to have over me.

I agree it is releasing oneself from carrying the burden or emotions connected to the offense.

There is still the responsibility of the other who may have or had committed the offense/hurt/damage to make amends or show some sort of acknowledgement and responsibility, IMO.

This may not mean that it is all right or justified. Means there is a recognition and respect there. Also doesn’t mean it will be forgotten or there will be trust towards the person. Just that I no longer give the person power over me and it is on them (so to speak).

It is tricky and emotions are a strong force. For me it is redirecting the emotions and placing experiences in their proper context.

Sure, some things in my book cause mistrust, but I don’t need to continue to punish myself by carrying the pain caused. To find ways to heal the pain and learn that those people are not to be trusted.

Doesn’t mean it is forgotten, but take it as lessons learned, IMO.
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