Heart

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by jonesboy

Hi 7L,

I don't think just because someone is "awakened" that they have a total grasp on this. Many here claim to be "awakened" yet are far from stainless.

To make it gender specific raises some interesting questions all on it's own.

Here is a better understanding of what Stainless means.
----

As you can see within Buddhism this is just a step along the path. A well worn path.

Jonesboy, thanks for your response and I respect your tradition.
I don't really have anything else to add...and I appreciate your sharing that info again about stainless.

I completely agree there is always more.
I'm just being a bit of a provocateur and throwing out some alternate perspectives (which are my own, anyway).

Peace & blessings,
7L

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by running

Stainless for me and as i experience it can be summed up in one sentence. Things dissolve as they arrise, you feel everything melt, nothing can stick to youl, and its beyond the ideas of the mind and cultural beliefs.

Just as the word implies. Is how i see it mean. When i got the message i thought about the character of stainless steel. What does it do? Its stainless.

Many people far beyond me would say similiar.

We can go on about a million things. And if thats what the thread turns into thats fine.

Im just going to make a friendly stance to everybody how ever or what ever the tradition. There are things beyond ideas of the mind and culture. And thats the context of the thread.

But i will enjoy reading about everybodys ideas. Weather they be from popular traditions or individuals.

Running, thanks again for your thanks and for your thoughts as well.
I agree with what you're saying about stainless...more and more, there is no thought that is not right-aligned...and if it does momentarily arise on rare occasion, it is as if it is a by-product or a faded image that has no real connection to you...in which case it simply disappears back into nothingness.

Occasionally, I still have this one fear of embarassing myself that still randomly recurs in my mind's eye when I am engaged in some deep inner reflection, LOL...it is a shame thing and I understand it connects to situations where I have been either shamed, abused and/or neglected for the simple act of existing and being, and for the (for some) almost unforgiveable acts of hope, faith, grace, simple love, and engagement. Mostly in childhood but a few ongoing situations in adulthood as well.

It's all to do with deeply buried obstacles that seek to hinder the deepening of equanimity and self-love, which can linger long after the heart is first awakened or quickened in its outward expansion toward others. This little odd scene, this bizarre little fear of being shamed in the offering of kindness and of being brutalised and treated unkindly in return...sometimes I just think, oh for God's sake, LOL...where does it still come from?

Because it's not as if the world ends, regardless, eh, even if I physically died...much less if in this body and this momentary existence I am abused or mistreated physically, emotionally, or spiritually. All that I was has already long since given way to all that I am...moments, months, lifetimes...it's all the same. So aside from pointing me to heart healing, which is ongoing as an act of service to all, it's of no use to me

It's almost comical now really, LOL... This one thing recurs to remind me we are all still human. That, and hunger, and fatigue, LOL... It just pops up once in a while to distract me from my real work and I gently push it aside.

Peace & blessings, friend
7L

[running]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Running, thanks again for your thanks and for your thoughts as well.
I agree with what you're saying about stainless...more and more, there is no thought that is not right-aligned...and if it does momentarily arise on rare occasion, it is as if it is a by-product or a faded image that has no real connection to you...in which case it simply disappears back into nothingness.

Occasionally, I still have this one fear of embarassing myself that still randomly recurs in my mind's eye when I am engaged in some deep inner reflection, LOL...it is a shame thing and I understand it connects to situations where I have been either shamed, abused and/or neglected for the simple act of existing and being, and for the (for some) almost unforgiveable acts of hope, faith, grace, simple love, and engagement. Mostly in childhood but a few ongoing situations in adulthood as well.

It's all to do with deeply buried obstacles that seek to hinder the deepening of equanimity and self-love, which can linger long after the heart is first awakened or quickened in its outward expansion toward others. This little odd scene, this bizarre little fear of being shamed in the offering of kindness and of being brutalised and treated unkindly in return...sometimes I just think, oh for God's sake, LOL...where does it still come from?

Because it's not as if the world ends, regardless, eh, even if I physically died...much less if in this body and this momentary existence I am abused or mistreated physically, emotionally, or spiritually. All that I was has already long since given way to all that I am...moments, months, lifetimes...it's all the same. So aside from pointing me to heart healing, which is ongoing as an act of service to all, it's of no use to me

It's almost comical now really, LOL... This one thing recurs to remind me we are all still human. That, and hunger, and fatigue, LOL... It just pops up once in a while to distract me from my real work and I gently push it aside.

Peace & blessings, friend
7L

Im going to speak my mind. But im not meaning you will experience it how im saying it. Nor is it how it is for everybody. Maybe, but i dont know?

Your never going to stop things from coming up. Short of controlling your life of every person and situation that comes about. Which would to me be living in a prison.

So its never, ever, and i mean ever going to happen.

But maybe, the ecstatic joy and silence of the mind will make everything tolerable and in ways enjoyable. Perhaps some horrible hardcore experience comes about. It will still not be fun. But you will, weather you like it or not have a bliss and silence that wont go away. Perhaps the situation is so bad the bliss and silence hardly matters. It will still be there and be there when the horrible experience ends.

The only good investment plan imo is from the kundalini shakti. To me its the only real freedom. Who knows what life may throw at us? How ever bad something may be, with the kundalini shakti, it will not be as bad. Or in the very least enjoyed again after the horrible thing.

Imo suffering will never end. But i can through energetic development enjoy most suffering.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by running

Im going to speak my mind. But im not meaning you will experience it how im saying it. Nor is it how it is for everybody. Maybe, but i dont know?

Your never going to stop things from coming up. Short of controlling your life of every person and situation that comes about. Which would to me be living in a prison.

So its never, ever, and i mean ever going to happen.

But maybe, the ecstatic joy and silence of the mind will make everything tolerable and in ways enjoyable. Perhaps some horrible hardcore experience comes about. It will still not be fun. But you will, weather you like it or not have a bliss and silence that wont go away. Perhaps the situation is so bad the bliss and silence hardly matters. It will still be there and be there when the horrible experience ends.

The only good investment plan imo is from the kundalini shakti. To me its the only real freedom. Who knows what life may throw at us? How ever bad something may be, with the kundalini shakti, it will not be as bad. Or in the very least enjoyed again after the horrible thing.

Imo suffering will never end. But i can through energetic development enjoy most suffering.

Running - I very much agree...you're spot on. Well said

Peace & blessings,
7L

[running]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Running, thanks again for your thanks and for your thoughts as well.
I agree with what you're saying about stainless...more and more, there is no thought that is not right-aligned...and if it does momentarily arise on rare occasion, it is as if it is a by-product or a faded image that has no real connection to you...in which case it simply disappears back into nothingness.

Occasionally, I still have this one fear of embarassing myself that still randomly recurs in my mind's eye when I am engaged in some deep inner reflection, LOL...it is a shame thing and I understand it connects to situations where I have been either shamed, abused and/or neglected for the simple act of existing and being, and for the (for some) almost unforgiveable acts of hope, faith, grace, simple love, and engagement. Mostly in childhood but a few ongoing situations in adulthood as well.

It's all to do with deeply buried obstacles that seek to hinder the deepening of equanimity and self-love, which can linger long after the heart is first awakened or quickened in its outward expansion toward others. This little odd scene, this bizarre little fear of being shamed in the offering of kindness and of being brutalised and treated unkindly in return...sometimes I just think, oh for God's sake, LOL...where does it still come from?

Because it's not as if the world ends, regardless, eh, even if I physically died...much less if in this body and this momentary existence I am abused or mistreated physically, emotionally, or spiritually. All that I was has already long since given way to all that I am...moments, months, lifetimes...it's all the same. So aside from pointing me to heart healing, which is ongoing as an act of service to all, it's of no use to me

It's almost comical now really, LOL... This one thing recurs to remind me we are all still human. That, and hunger, and fatigue, LOL... It just pops up once in a while to distract me from my real work and I gently push it aside.

Peace & blessings, friend
7L

Im not sure exactly what your thoughts on this are from re reading your post

The idea that there is a right thought and a wrong thought is the problem. As long as that goes on there is a battleground going on in the mind. Doesnt mean i act on the ones i dont wish to. But i dont give them any power over me.

I just wanted to make that clear from my opinion. Cauelse i dont think anything holds people back more than that imo.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by running

Im not sure exactly what your thoughts on this are from re reading your post

The idea that there is a right thought and a wrong thought is the problem. As long as that goes on there is a battleground going on in the mind. Doesnt mean i act on the ones i dont wish to. But i dont give them any power over me.

I just wanted to make that clear from my opinion. Cauelse i dont think anything holds people back more than that imo.

You're right on that...bad or wrong is not the right word for what I was discussing...it's just not right-aligned IMO because it's distracting me from my focus on loving self and others.

Now if someone had violent thoughts rather than just a fear of embarrassment, I'd say of course that's also wrongly aligned to spirit...but that one often points to a lot of underlying issues that will have to be dealt with eventually by the individual. Sooner is always better than later. And if ever acted upon (which happens all the time, everywhere), violent thoughts clearly represent a great potential danger for others.

If someone wanted to say that the most severely harmful thoughts or impulses that are misaligned are "bad" in their view rather than "annoying or distracting", I wouldn't spend too much time arguing or telling them to call it good or neutral. Because in the context of interbeing, what's unsustainable, toxic and harmful either to self OR to others is reasonably called "bad". Or unsustainable. Or misaligned or wrongly aligned with Spirit.

I'd probably spend more time instead trying to help them understand what's causing those violent thoughts and imagery and getting at the underlying sources of rage, hostility, and aggression. Alongside giving them some meditation tips to try to get some distance from those thoughts and observe them, they would also need to dig in and see what's really going on inside and where the rage is coming from.

But yes, generally I agree -- the vast majority of thoughts that pop up which are not harmful or violent are basically just distractions. They often play on one's deepest fears or vulnerabilities...and they should just be handled gently and pushed aside.

Peace & blessings,
7L

[running]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

You're right on that...bad or wrong is not the right word for what I was discussing...it's just not right-aligned IMO because it's distracting me from my focus on loving self and others.

Now if someone had violent thoughts rather than just a fear of embarrassment, I'd say of course that's also wrongly aligned to spirit...but that one often points to a lot of underlying issues that will have to be dealt with eventually by the individual. Sooner is always better than later. And if ever acted upon (which happens all the time, everywhere), violent thoughts clearly represent a great potential danger for others.

If someone wanted to say that the most severely harmful thoughts or impulses that are misaligned are "bad" in their view rather than "annoying or distracting", I wouldn't spend too much time arguing or telling them to call it good or neutral. Because in the context of interbeing, what's unsustainable, toxic and harmful either to self OR to others is reasonably called "bad". Or unsustainable. Or misaligned or wrongly aligned with Spirit.

I'd probably spend more time instead trying to help them understand what's causing those violent thoughts and imagery and getting at the underlying sources of rage, hostility, and aggression. Alongside giving them some meditation tips to try to get some distance from those thoughts and observe them, they would also need to dig in and see what's really going on inside and where the rage is coming from.

But yes, generally I agree -- the vast majority of thoughts that pop up which are not harmful or violent are basically just distractions. They often play on one's deepest fears or vulnerabilities...and they should just be handled gently and pushed aside.

Peace & blessings,
7L

Im having fun sharing and reading yours to. Now anger is something that was a big surprise for me on my path. Everybody is negative towards anger. I can understand. But it can be one heck of a tool for growth.

During my awakening i found an unbelievable amount of anger. Its funny cause everybody if they have a complaint about me is i may be to easy going. Why dont you get angry

So it was kinda funny running into all this raw anger energy. Im very familiar with the energy itself from sports. Sports and physical exercise was my lifes passsion as a kid and still is in ways. So i can channel its power easily most often. Switch on my adrenal glands, feel the power, and its like i cant feel pain as easily.

I once tryed to stop a fight between a girlfriends son who had a knife against two guys. I jump between and one of them punches me in the side of the head hard enough to knock me onto the ground. Never felt it lol. I jump up and as i do, the other one kicks me in the head hard enough to knock me back down to the ground. Never felt a thing. LolThat time i got up screaming and my girlfriend got between them. She stopped it way better than me. Lol.

I can go on. Biggest complaint people would have on me playing basketball is i would almost never call a foul. Truth is i enjoyed the conflict and couldnt feel half of them anyways. Nothing i love more than adrenal power. Lol. Except today i of course enjoy the bliss more. But mix it with some adrenal, ahhhh that feels good. Lol

Okay, now back to my experience. Past life experiences were coming up. Almost everything it seemed that came up was violent. Initially i tryed to deny what i was feeling. Ashamed of what i was feeling.

Then i broke free and used it to my advantage. I took all that anger and used it to blast through my obstructions.

Omg, it was like meeting god every time. Release it and let the raw power blast me like a rocket ship. Again and again and again. Until it stuck. And here i am years later. And its endless. Lol

So i like to share that. Cause its maybe if more people know how we can use anger and violence feelings for good. People could use it for more good. (releasing them to god) And less bad things.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by running

Im having fun sharing and reading yours to. Now anger is something that was a big surprise for me on my path. Everybody is negative towards anger. I can understand. But it can be one heck of a tool for growth.

During my awakening i found an unbelievable amount of anger. Its funny cause everybody if they have a complaint about me is i may be to easy going. Why dont you get angry

So it was kinda funny running into all this raw anger energy. Im very familiar with the energy itself from sports. Sports and physical exercise was my lifes passsion as a kid and still is in ways. So i can channel its power easily most often. Switch on my adrenal glands, feel the power, and its like i cant feel pain as easily.

I once tryed to stop a fight between a girlfriends son who had a knife against two guys. I jump between and one of them punches me in the side of the head hard enough to knock me onto the ground. Never felt it lol. I jump up and as i do, the other one kicks me in the head hard enough to knock me back down to the ground. Never felt a thing. LolThat time i got up screaming and my girlfriend got between them. She stopped it way better than me. Lol.

I can go on. Biggest complaint people would have on me playing basketball is i would almost never call a foul. Truth is i enjoyed the conflict and couldnt feel half of them anyways. Nothing i love more than adrenal power. Lol. Except today i of course enjoy the bliss more. But mix it with some adrenal, ahhhh that feels good. Lol

Okay, now back to my experience. Past life experiences were coming up. Almost everything it seemed that came up was violent. Initially i tryed to deny what i was feeling. Ashamed of what i was feeling.

Then i broke free and used it to my advantage. I took all that anger and used it to blast through my obstructions.

Omg, it was like meeting god every time. Release it and let the raw power blast me like a rocket ship. Again and again and again. Until it stuck. And here i am years later. And its endless. Lol

So i like to share that. Cause its maybe if more people know how we can use anger and violence feelings for good. People could use it for more good. (releasing them to god) And less bad things.

Running, that's a really constructive and helpful post -- I hope it can reach anyone who may be thinking they must deny or run away from this sort of strong feeling...it absolutely can be rechanneled...and it that very process, it is completely transformed. It's a wonderful thing...

And it's when you finally allowed yourself to experience your anger, that you were able to channel it into something that was positive and that freed you to grow and move forward.

I like that a lot...I think the problem is that many are so overwhelmed and afraid of their deepest feelings, that they are not yet confident in their ability to freely experience their feelings...much less rechannel some of the ones that otherwise might distract or misdirect them.

We were talking about equanimity on another thread (which me is me?) and how the many aspects of equanimity are so helpful in this regard. In just so many ways. But it seems that equanimity is often the last frontier, lol...so to speak.

Peace & blessings
7L

[running]

Originally Posted by 7luminaries

Running, that's a really constructive and helpful post -- I hope it can reach anyone who may be thinking they must deny or run away from this sort of strong feeling...it absolutely can be rechanneled...and it that very process, it is completely transformed. It's a wonderful thing...

And it's when you finally allowed yourself to experience your anger, that you were able to channel it into something that was positive and that freed you to grow and move forward.

I like that a lot...I think the problem is that many are so overwhelmed and afraid of their deepest feelings, that they are not yet confident in their ability to freely experience their feelings...much less rechannel some of the ones that otherwise might distract or misdirect them.

We were talking about equanimity on another thread (which me is me?) and how the many aspects of equanimity are so helpful in this regard. In just so many ways. But it seems that equanimity is often the last frontier, lol...so to speak.

Peace & blessings
7L

Thanks!

Which me is me? God is not a person place or thing. It is of spirit. Which is why i seperate the mind and culture from it. When the focus is first on spirit, things become easier i have found. Then it may become the experience. Everything else is in the background. Which is the topic of this thread. Or my intention anyways. The joy and silence. Shakti and shiva. I agree.

[7luminaries]

Originally Posted by running

Thanks!

Which me is me? God is not a person place or thing. It is of spirit. Which is why i seperate the mind and culture from it. When the focus is first on spirit, things become easier i have found. Then it may become the experience. Everything else is in the background. Which is the topic of this thread. Or my intention anyways. The joy and silence. Shakti and shiva. I agree.

Yes it's funny...there are so many ways to approach Spirit and being.
Many paths to God, as they say.

On the other thread, there are some things seem to help my understanding and resonate with my experience....and there are many other things that just don't. And yet if those other things are helpful conceptually to others, then that's fine by me.

But broadly speaking, I agree very much with this.

Peace & blessings,
7L