► INFO ON PREVIOUS BUDDHAS

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

If the Buddhavaṃsa is a Sutta Buddhist are not suppose to believe, how many other Suttas are there that have been dismissed by Buddhists as believable?

It is NOT a Sutra but part of the Khuddaka Nikāya, which in turn is part of the Sutta Piṭaka I did Post this info: previously.

[sky]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

What might happen if a Buddhist does a walking meditation for 8 or more hours?
Have you ever done a meditation for over 4 hours and it seemed like 10-15 minutes long?

Not relevant to the Buddhasavamsa....

[BigJohn]

Some Buddhists claim they believe only in the Suttas and then you find out, even they, do not believe in all the Suttas.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by sky123

It is NOT a Sutra but part of the Khuddaka Nikāya, which in turn is part of the Sutta Piṭaka I did Post this info: previously.

Are you saying that the Suttas (Pali Scriptures) have information that should not be there?

[Phaelyn]

Some very human authorities in all religions at some point in history decided what writings and beliefs and stories would be official scripture in their religion. It's the same in Buddhism or Christianity or whatever. It appears that this official scripture will often include many different types of literature from many different sources. Most people who join a religion are not scholars or experts on all these various writings in the official scripture of a religion. So the average person does not know why a particular writing is a part of the official scripture or what it's sources or influences were.

I'm not an expert in scripture in any religion, but lets take the idea that there are giants in some Buddhist and Christian scripture. A religious reader in modern times will have to decide for themselves if they believe there were human-like persons 30 feet tall or more that existed at some time in history.

It appears that both Buddhist and Christian scripture also make references to humans who lived 500 years or more. Methuselah in the bible was said to have died at the age of 969. Like the giants, it's up to the individual to decide if such scripture is literally true or was metaphorical or included in the scripture for other reasons.

I took a college class on Christianity once and the professor started explaining the historical sources of the virgin birth story that pre-dated Christianity.

Here is a biblical scholars quote on it:

Most modern educated theologians have generally rejected the virgin birth. They regard it as a religious myth that was added to Christian belief in the late first century A.D. and was triggered by a Greek mistranslation of the book of Isaiah from the original Hebrew. Its purpose was to make Christianity more competitive with contemporary pagan religions in the Mediterranean region, most of whom featured their founder having been born of a virgin. Without the claim of a virgin birth, many believe it to be unclear whether "Christianity" could have survived.

About two thousand years before the Christian era Mut-em-ua, the virgin Queen of Egypt, was said to have given a virgin birth to the Pharaoh Amenkept for example.

There's more:

Attis, the Phrygian god, was said to be the son of the virgin Nana.

The Grecian God Dionysos was said -- in one version of the myth concerning him -- to be the son of Zeus out of the virgin goddess Persephone.

Perseus was also said to have been born of a virgin.

Adonis, the Syrian god; Osiris, the first person of the principal Egyptian Trinity; and Mithra, the Persian god whom so many of the Roman soldiers worshiped all had virgin births.

Of Plato it was related that his mother Perictione was a virgin who conceived him immaculately by the god Apollo. Apollo himself revealed the circumstances of this conception to Ariston, the betrothed husband of the virgin.

I talked with a Jesuit Roman Catholic Priest once and he pointed out to me the mythical sources of many bible stories that of course some Christians take literally. So don't think it is expected for officials in religions to take scripture literally or as truth and not myth. One function of the Jesuit order is to be scripture scholars and so they study and are experts in such things.

All major world religions have developed and formed over many thousands of years so they include a rich tradition of literature and myths and fictional stories are included in this work. But everyone is an individual with their own ways of viewing things so there will always be people who believe every word of scripture is literally true.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Some very human authorities in all religions at some point in history decided what writings and beliefs and stories would be official scripture in their religion. It's the same in Buddhism or Christianity or whatever.

In post #33 I provided a valid explanation for such beliefs and with a little bit of meditation, it seems to coincide why so many are drawn to Spiritual Forums.

Many of the same 'authorities' you referenced generally look at what we discuss on all the forums here as 'things' that are not true.

And then you look at Maitreya, some Buddhist schools promote him whereas others seem to think of him as a fantasy. Being that Maitreya resides now in Tuṣita Heaven, can we assume that Tuṣita Heaven is a fantasy. If Maitreya is a fantasy and the other Buddhas before Gautama Buddha are fantasies, then is Gautama Buddha a fantasy?

It appears a 'larger hole' is created with such a belief system. But if you look at posit #33, all the various beliefs start to make 'sense' when you try 'putting them together'. For example, Buddhists emphasize watching your 'breath' during meditation. And if you watch your 'breath' long enough, you will see it move - not in and out, but in a flowing, swirling motion. Now if you look in the sub-forum AURAS, you might see info that others who are non-Buddhists have noted about the same thing. What they claim is the breath is affecting the person's Aura.

[sentient]

One might talk about reality consisting of two truths or two dimensions - absolute and relative.

Since 'absolute truths' cannot be expressed by the use of relative language, mythology is used.
In Shamanism anyways.

One giant from the past comes to mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gl_rqo4C_7A
Which, rightly or wrongly - to my mind (in reference to our Uralic meta-ethnicity culture) represents the 7 levels of the ‘vertical’ (absolute dimension) path. (horizontal being the relative dimension).
Khanty/Mansi wooden idols:
https://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/me...3-largejpg.jpg


Padmasambhava, 'the lotus born' - according to the myth was born miraculously as well – a virgin birth.

(Can’t comment on - don’t know about Near-Eastern agriculturalist’s myths – have next to none of their DNA, heritage nor culture ….)

*

[Phaelyn]

Also for us human animals, our beliefs affect reality itself whether these beliefs are actually true or totally made up and fantasy. Take for example a child that is convinced and believes a monster lives under their bed. That fear is 100% real. When that child hears a strange noise at night, maybe a dog outside, or wood in the house creaking/popping due to temperature changes and humidity, the child's brain releases real fear based chemicals so the child's experience of fear is very real.

This is why humans enjoy stories and movies and tv so much, the brain does not distinguish between "real" and "imagined" belief. To the brain, watching a horror movie is the same as living a real fearful experience. The made up monster on the screen is treated the same way by the brain as a real grizzly bear running at you if we get into and lost in the movie. The more we believe the more our body reacts as if real.

Hypnotism shows the same thing, when the hypnotized person opens themselves up to the hypnotists "suggestions" (telling them what is real, what to believe) the person experiences fully the made up belief. A hypnotized person can be told an onion is an apple, then they eat it and enjoy it as if it was an apple.

This totally relates to Buddhism as the main teaching is our brains and conditioning is dictating our experience. Liberation or enlightenment is putting an end to this way of living. To no longer let our thought and false beliefs (delusions) create or contribute to what we experience.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by sentient

One might talk about reality consisting of two truths or two dimensions - absolute and relative.

But then if we believe it or think it, it is real to us, even though it can be completely made up and not true outside of the human mind at all. If a group of people decide this mountain is now Walton Mountain, and so everyone accepts that, that name gets put on maps and signs etc, it is now reality. Somebody says, is this the rocky mountains? Somebody answers, no, no this is Walton mountain. We live in a huge amount of 100% made up "reality." This is our "conditioning." We experience through the filters of our conditioning. Then internally it is the same. Our parents give us a name. You are "John." You like the color blue. Your favorite food is mashed potatoes. You are not good at math. We walk around and live and experience in this bubble of our fixed conditioning. Our thought based, idea based, concept based "reality."

The mystics, the shaman, Buddha's, etc say one can be free of our conditioning and experience the magical world directly. The non-conceptual, non-conditioned experience is beyond what we "know." It is living with and in the un-known.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Hypnotism shows the same thing, when the hypnotized person opens themselves up to the hypnotists "suggestions" (telling them what is real, what to believe) the person experiences fully the made up belief. A hypnotized person can be told an onion is an apple, then they eat it and enjoy it as if it was an apple.

It appears everybody, even Buddhists, are in various states of hypnosis each and every day. Most people are not trained to notice that.

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

This totally relates to Buddhism as the main teaching is our brains and conditioning is dictating our experience. Liberation or enlightenment is putting an end to this way of living. To no longer let our thought and false beliefs (delusions) create or contribute to what we experience.

But........ many of the Buddhist teachings can not be proven to be true which is indicative of having a "hypnotic grasp".