It isn't ONE Self it is Self that is all there is ..

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by God-Like

If the actual isn't known or realised then a metaphor for life reality must reflect this .

I think what you said above answers all your questions and the question why peeps do not answer your question and why peeps give you excuses as to why they can't answer your questions . I elaborate more on this below:

Metaphors and analogies are subjective, not actual/factual. Therein lies the issue.

Peeps are so focused on and dare I say obsessed/attached to subjective metaphores and analogies, these peeps do not move beyond metaphores and analogies to see the actual/factual (and the what is) for what it truly is.

Objective reality, which is the infinite eternal right here and right now, brahman, atman, the tao/dao, "god" etc etc is the actual/factual, so when a person believes that objective reality is an illusion/ is not real or is not a thing, that person denies and rejects the infinite eternal right here and right now, brahman, atman, the eternal tao/dao, "god" etc etc. Because of this, these peeps lock themselves in the subjectivity of thier mind and thus do not and will not experience the actual/factual of objective reality. therein lies another issue.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by janielee

Dear MikeS80,

It may appear so but in my eyes, your presentation lacks nuance and therefore accuracy. It would be like saying elephants and dogs are animals, therefore all animals are elephants and dogs.

Whilst there is some truth, in my opinion, that all is not separate from the Absolute Truth, not utilizing differentiation is also inaccurate.

In particular, in spiritual practice, ego is not the same as so-called "Atman" (used here for conversational and continuity purposes). There are many ways we could talk about it, Mike.

We could say ego is a instrument, but this is not true for over 90% of the population; for most they are an instrument of ego. We could say that if it were not for ego, there would not be enlightenment, for it is the observation and eventual relinquishment of ego that supports enlightenment. We could say that the Light must cast a shadow, and to differentiate would be incorrect; however the reality - in my opinion - in spiritual practice is always ALWAYS to clarify "ego"

In Buddhism, we have a saying, "To study Buddhism is to study the self, to study the self is to forget the self, to forget the self is to be enlightened by the ten thousand dhammas..."

Even anatta, it's not for "study", it's for reflection, realization, transformation and embodiment.

Peace

jl

I do not have a problem with differentiation, but we where talking about the self here, not animals.

There are many breeds of dogs and cats but there is only one cat I have whose name is Barbie. From a spiritual oneness/wholeness and equality point of view the breed and name of the cat does not matter. what matters is that all animals, objects and matter including us humans come and came from the same source, thus we are all equal. You can take differentiation way too far.

Oneness/wholeness is all about equality. Everyone and everything is equal in relation to each other.

Originally Posted by MikeS80

Why not just call the impermanent the impermanent, instead of using the so called anaology of illusion or unreal for the impermanent? Illusion/unreal implies something does not exist and what exists is what reality is, existence is reality, and reality is existence.

Does it really matter? Either way it can lead to existential crisis, the ultimate being the death thingy. Isn't this what it's all about? Overcoming fear and suffering and especially the ultimate fear and suffering?

I find my experience, when closely examined, lines up quite well with the various vivekas. For me the most powerful one is that which changes and that which is unchanging. That which changes is impermanent and that which is unchanging is permanent. The permanent has inherent existence and the impermanent has only borrowed existence.

My experience informs me there's only one thing that's unchanging, thus having inherent existence, and that's Consciousness. Perhaps the most stark example is my earliest memory from about four months old. It was an OBE and "I" was totally detached from mind-body, witnessing it all from behind and over mom's right shoulder. That feeling of existence, of being, of "I Am" is identical to a very deep state of meditation. When I settle my mind it's the exact same feeling of existence, of being, of "I Am", even as I sit and type this post. Another place where it's really stark is driving, especially on an empty, winding and scenic country road. My body is literally on autopilot and it performs quite well. I don't crash. LOL! Call it "in the zone" or "flow state". Another example is hitting a fastball.

For instance don't you feel like (I Am) the exact same being across your entire life regardless of age, education, belief, failure, success, health, illness, ups, downs? That is everything changes except the feeling of I Am.

It's my opinion that feeling of "I Am" is exactly the same for me, you and everyone because it's not localized and it's the "feeling" of existence Itself. The Unmanifest manifesting in each and every one of us. It's what the ego, Ahamkara, latches onto as its own, and that's the root of suffering.

Originally Posted by janielee

JASG -

You cannot find better elucidations on the topic of ego on this forum, than from Jyotir, imo.

https://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/s...1&postcount=69

JL

By the way, it was Jyotir who recommended I read some of Swami Vivekananda's works shortly after I arrived here. That very day I ordered "Vivekananda: The Yogas and Other Works" on Amazon. Great book!

Here's a link I shared in the past and it contains all in that book and more!

Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda

https://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.i...lete_works.htm

Originally Posted by MikeS80

I do not have a problem with differentiation, but we where talking about the self here, not animals.

There are many breeds of dogs and cats but there is only one cat I have whose name is Barbie. From a spiritual oneness/wholeness and equality point of view the breed and name of the cat does not matter. what matters is that all animals, objects and matter including us humans come and came from the same source, thus we are all equal. You can take differentiation way too far.

Oneness/wholeness is all about equality. Everyone and everything is equal in relation to each other.

That's convoluting the theory of the Absolute in to an "anything goes" philosophy, and is not consistent with the spiritual teachings or traditions, for good reason, imo.

jl

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

By the way, it was Jyotir who recommended I read some of Swami Vivekananda's works shortly after I arrived here. That very day I ordered "Vivekananda: The Yogas and Other Works" on Amazon. Great book!

Here's a link I shared in the past and it contains all in that book and more!

Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda

https://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.i...lete_works.htm

Thanks, JASG! I love your energy and rigor on this forum.

Take breaks whenever you want and don't let it take up all your time, it's a bit of a energy vacuum in that regard

I'll take a look at the links..

JL

Originally Posted by janielee

Thanks, JASG! I love your energy and rigor on this forum.

Take breaks whenever you want and don't let it take up all your time, it's a bit of a energy vacuum in that regard

I'll take a look at the links..

JL

There's enough material there to keep one busy for years. Literally. LOL!

I know you follow a different path and have more than enough to fill your time but it might be interesting to poke around in your spare time. Aside from the Yoags there's also a biography, speeches and lots of correspondences between Swami and his associates and followers. It gives a lot of insight into Vivekananda the man.

I did take a cursory look at The Four Noble Truths and the Eightfold Path before getting more involved with Advaita. What I can say, at least I think I can, is the main gist of the texts from both traditions is to bring about clarity and purity of mind, a prerequisite for enlightenment.

Meditation seems to have a more central role in Buddhism and in truth most of my meditation practice is from Tibetan Buddhism. There are also specific Vedantic meditation techniques that center around inquiry into the nature of Self which are quite different. In any case I find the Tibetan Buddhist techniques very powerful and beneficial for bringing about clarity and concentration of mind.

The meditation you have described you utilize sounds like zen meditation to me.

Originally Posted by janielee

The meditation you have described you utilize sounds like zen meditation to me.

My main technique is Shamatha/Calm Abiding.

https://www.vipassanaforum.net/meditation/Shamatha.pdf

To keep it fresh I'll substitute sound for breathe, switching back and forth every few weeks. I have several YouTube tracks of Tibetan Singing Bowls for that. For resting in awareness/choiceless awareness/do nothing meditation I simply drop the object of focus. No sound, no breathe, no smell, no taste, no sensation.

I try to have one sitting of focused meditation and one of open meditation daily. Nothing too outrageous, just 30 minutes a sitting. Is the latter (open/resting in awareness) more of a Zen technique? I don't know but I first heard of it from Jon Kabat-Zinn in this presentation. https://youtu.be/5TeWvf-nfpA

On occasion I also throw in some loving-kindness meditation, usually on weekends when I have more free time.

Here's an instructional video on Tibetan mindfulness. I really like this guy (Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche)!

https://youtu.be/ukTaodQfYRQ?list=PL...XKU_1z5sHaw a

Zen meditation has a few types but is primarily segregated into:

1. Zazen (Zen meditation) - there are different forms - Soto generally promotes choiceless awareness. Aware of the breath, you are aware of the breath, Aware of the thought you let it come and go, Aware of the sound you let it come and go.

Most teachers teach awareness of the breath

2. Koan practice - only with lineage holders in the Rinzai tradition. Here you are given koans such as "What was my face before my parents were born". I imagine it is similar to the inquiry you mention.

There are many "types" of meditation but at heart they utilize similar universal principles behind the scenes, in my opinion.

JASG, in my opinion and personal experience, the less complicated and more "simple" the meditation, the more effective it is.

We do not pursue, and are not, enarmored by other things. This is the fast path to enlightenment in some respects, I guess, and because of your interest in study and traditions, I believe you will not go far astray.

Blessings,

JL