Non Duality and Spiritual Bypassing ?

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

While what u say is a statement of fact. But there is no or little awarenes/ realization for this. And without awareness /realization experiential bliss of oneness does not come.

What are the reasons there is no awareness though? If there was no Duality and therefore no non-Duality this thread wouldn't exist, nor the opportunity for people to say so many things about non-Duality - and everything else that comes from that. Isn't that Spiritual by-passing too?

Sometimes Spirituality isn't about Spirituality any more, and frankly Oneness doesn't mean very much either.

Originally Posted by Joe Mc

Spirituality is a word that use to point towards the unknown, has it lost it's meaning nowadays ?

If you started a thread on "What is Spirituality?" and stood back to watch the show, what understandings do you think you could glean from it? I'd bet your shirt that you wouldn't find any kind of universal definition/description but what you would find is people's own definitions. Frankly, I think it's become so diluted that it's not Spiritual any more.

And since this is a thread about Spiritual bypassing, how is Spiritual bypassing any different to 'regular' bypassing since it's also non-Duality? Being non-Duality it would suggest that there was only one 'flavour' of bypassing, it would also suggest that psychology would have its part to play because bypassing is actually dissociative and that's a personality issue. But then, psychology is supposedly not relevant in a Spiritual discussion, even though much of today's psychology is based on ancient philosophy/religion. But discussing bypassing is into psychoanalysis territory.

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Most influential people of the human history were always considered spiritual bypassers.

Jung was a student of Advaita Vedanta and had won the recognition of some of the higher echelons of religion/philosophy. In particular, he 'built' his model of the ego on the Ahamkara and his model of the self on the Atman. Much of the Eightfold Path is loosely based on what we in the West would call psychology, and as an example Right Thinking is akin to constructive cognitive behaviour. If you Google Chitta/Citta and follow that through, you'll find Western psychology with a Sanskrit dictionary.

Saying that psychology has no place in Spirituality isn't just Spiritual bypassing, and it certainly isn't Spirituality either. And self awareness? All of that is relative to a made-up definition of the self and is really the ego and NOT the self. The irony is that once you understand the psychology and how it applies to Spirituality, it makes more sense of the Spirituality.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 2 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by iamthat

I see spiritual enquiry and self-healing as going hand-in-hand. Spiritual practices are not an escape from our issues. Spiritual practices usually involve some level of introspection, and we are forced to deal with whatever lies within.

What you wrote is precisely what came to mind immediately after I read the original post. You have expressed it so articulately and concisely that I have nothing more to add as you have covered everything quite admirably.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

What you wrote is precisely what came to mind immediately after I read the original post. You have expressed it so articulately and concisely that I have nothing more to add as you have covered everything quite admirably.

Thanks, Still_Waters. I appreciate your appreciation.

Peace

[MikeS80]

This topic is an important one.

Non Duality is not spiritual bypassing, when one knows that non-duality simply means brahman and atman/self are one. This means that duality is the separation/fragmentation of brahman and atman/self.

Non duality does not create a paradox and/or a mystery of the "unknown" or indescribable, the misunderstanding and misconstruing of non duality, the "unkown" to mean other than brahman and atman/self are one and the same, is what creates a paradox or mystery or "unknown" that does not exist.

One whom tries to transcend and/or negate the physical, mind, body, intellect etc etc is also trying to transcend and/or negate atman and brahman as well, because brahman are all those "things". A person whom does this, may be using non duality (as the physical vs spiritual and/or mental) to spiritual bypass, depending on the context of course.

Gong deeper, Non duality means that the physical reality and ultimate/spiritual reality are one and the same because atman/self is both the physical and spiritual.

You, and me is brahman, so you and me is naturally and relatively brahman, this and that is brahman, so naturally and relatively both this and that is brahman.

Maya, ahamkara, illusion etc etc all falls within the same context of separating brahman and atman.

[Ewwerrin]

Existence is infinite, and it exists to support your eternally ever expanding and evolving perspective. There are no limitations except the ones we choose/allow for our preference. For our enjoyed experience of it. There will always be more enjoyable ways to perceive and thus create realities and experiences. So if you enjoy your perspective, all is well and getting weller. And if you don't, it's just a reminder of what you prefer, a clarifier.

So if one enjoys for the sake of enjoying, unconditionally, under any and all conditions, regardless of any and all conditions, energy motionally, emotionally, enjoying existence and being, then there are no limitations to what is possible. Things that seem impossible or contradictory can co-exist, because one is in alignment with the infinite and eternal nature of existence that we and one all is, as one as all, limitless. And so limitations can be a positive thing. It allows for an experience that is of that.

And to really bring more of the limitless nature of your and all ultimate being into physical time and space focus, it requires a vibrational allowing/alignment with that, that indicates the allowing of your true nature, that feels to the human being that you consider yourself to be, very good, emotionally. And in that, good feeling positive emotional energy motional alignment/resonance, indicating the expansive nature of your awareness, to not only be do or have anything you so desire, but also know all of it at the same time, in an limitlessly expansive awareness indicated by appreciation.

Nothing holds any limitation. But the appearance of limitation is a valuable creational tool/mechanism/dream that is like the clay of your consciousness, as it is made out of your consciousness, that you can mold in infinitely enjoyable and limitless infinite many ways.

This is already always the case. And to the degree that we are aware, we enjoy all that we are aware of. And yet that awareness can expand upon so many self contradicting perspectives, and lessen into suffering. But that is still just as much a creating as anything else. That even tho, one is bound up, in the lack of awareness of ones own choices. Or awareness of the choices they are making. The process of creating is still always happening.

So resisting duality or anything, expands the awareness into the moreness of it. And in that self deprivation, like in hunger, there is greater appreciation for fulfillment. And eventually also duality is just the illusionary nature of awareness, so it is always possible to transcend it effortlessly, no matter how much limitation is imposed on the self. Because once you truely understand that everything is truely infinite, then there need not be any change of appearance, to satisfy the eternal co-creative joyful dance that is capable of being realised under any and all conditions and regardless of any and all conditions, unconditionally. Energy motionally and emotionally always capable of being realised effortlessly, playfully, joyfully, freely, naturally, effortlessly. In accordance with ones own naturally infinite nature of being.

One has to only get into a position of no longer caring so much about any trying or trying to control conditions to realise ones own true infinite nature and the desire that is eternal and good can be realised also in suffering. To realise the value of the desire that may seem to be lacking or out of reach, and to realise that the main purpose of your eternal ever expanding existence is to realise evermore new and more new and fresh desire. Then any condition that may present itself will naturally reorient the individual being back into full realisation of their ever expanding nature of being, which will always exist beyond difficulty or struggle or limitation. Then the circumstances can always be appreciated and enjoyed effortlessly to be allowed effortlessly to come into full realisation.

[Joe Mc]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

If you started a thread on "What is Spirituality?" and stood back to watch the show, what understandings do you think you could glean from it? I'd bet your shirt that you wouldn't find any kind of universal definition/description but what you would find is people's own definitions. Frankly, I think it's become so diluted that it's not Spiritual any more.

And since this is a thread about Spiritual bypassing, how is Spiritual bypassing any different to 'regular' bypassing since it's also non-Duality? Being non-Duality it would suggest that there was only one 'flavour' of bypassing, it would also suggest that psychology would have its part to play because bypassing is actually dissociative and that's a personality issue. But then, psychology is supposedly not relevant in a Spiritual discussion, even though much of today's psychology is based on ancient philosophy/religion. But discussing bypassing is into psychoanalysis territory.

Yes the position of 'Bypassing' suggests that you don't move through one thing to get to another thing, you bypass it, in this case, your emotions and real life circumstances. You use non duality to say there is nobody there so my emotional well being and life circumstances doesn't really matter at any level. So in that case, non duality is just an idea. You are using an idea of what non duality is to evade emotional letting go and healing. Much like a child does something that offends his or her heart and tries to deny it and say it wasn't me it was Mother or Father in other words it was God who did that. No it was you who did that. But this is how we learn or perhaps some people disagree with that type of learning ?

I think psychological suffering becomes a big problem only when we see it as unique to ourselves, and although our stories are very unique to ourselves, no doubt, there is a key element in all of it, not sure if I could call it the Dualistic perspective, that I alone have suffered, my suffering is greater than yours. So we identify too much with being a long lasting independent self. We move away from 'Oneness', isn't that what is at the heart of human suffering in general ? A clinging to my suffering as opposed to your suffering and unfortunately in many the complete denial of suffering and a fast running away in the form of so many material things, lifestyles etc. ?

Anyway one thing is for sure this is not easy to write about is it ??

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Originally Posted by Joe Mc

You are using an idea of what non duality is to evade emotional letting go and healing.

What is non-Duality? So many people talking about it yet I've never seen a single definition of it. Do people just take it for granted? Is non-Duality what is not Duality, in which case that makes it Duality anyway? Has anyone actually spent time 'dismantling' non-Duality?

The problems aren't Spiritual at all, they're firmly rooted in human nature and using Spiritual ideas and beliefs isn't going to help. Spiritual bypassing is not wanting to to deal with reality as it is and wanting some idyllic reality instead, and frankly that's neither Spiritual nor of 'sound mind'. Nor is denial. When people become 'Spiritual Beings' instead of 'regular Joes/Janes it begins to go wrong.

[MikeS80]

Originally Posted by Greenslade

What is non-Duality? So many people talking about it yet I've never seen a single definition of it. Do people just take it for granted? Is non-Duality what is not Duality, in which case that makes it Duality anyway?

Saying non duaility is duality come from a lack of understanding and is focusing on the word non duality, and it's opposite, duality, way too much.

The non duality concept is essentially for people whom are new to a philosophy of monism/oneness, like Advaita Vedanta . A person whom is new to a philosophy of monism/oneness, like Advaita Vedanta, thinks, acts and lives in duality or in separation and isolation from brahman/god/source, hence the concept of non duality was created for people to learn that they are not separate and isolated from brahman/god/source, yet people's feelings, pains, fears and sufferings became attached to the concept of non duality, and uses the concept of non duality to ignore, negate and escape duality/the physical and do not evolve beyond the concept of non duality. This all leads to internal and thus external chaos, conflicts and contradictions.

Many people believe, in error, that non duality means oneness/wholeness and is only spiritual/not physical, this could not be any further from the truth, oneness/wholeness is both non duality/the spiritual/god/source, and duality/the physical united together as one.

Everything that is physical is and comes from brahman/god/source, anyone whom says otherwise, may be spiritual bypassing to ignore and escape their conditioned feelings, thoughts, beliefs, etc etc. This is why good/positive feelings, thoughts and etc, such as bliss are not always a good thing, they are artificial/superficial created things to give one's self mental comfort and escape. This is also when the concepts of ahamkara, maya etc comes into the picture.