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02-05-2021, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
And who is the one that becomes aware of the one who becomes aware of their own awareness?
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And who is the one that is awareness becoming aware of itself?
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02-05-2021, 11:51 AM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,295
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spirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
I guess Jung - who was regarded as a great mind of his time and was a Spiritual adept, particularly in Advaita Vedanta - was delusional then?
Spirit is not the one that creates the experience, your unconscious (and its various subsystems) creates your experience - the experience is the experiencer. A discussion of who/what I am is incomplete at best without at least some understanding of psychology, because we are far more that most people want to believe we are. The 'I' that the I-maker or Ahamkara creates is itself an 'invented thing', the an 'invented thing' creates the 'I' that is seen in the mirror.
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Jung is an authority in psychology . Unfortunately I have not read him as extensively as you may have . So I simply can not comment whether he's right or wrong .
All I can say I have read lot of thing like following Christianity quotes to base my inferences and hopefully u can see its nothing eastern or western . It's simply universal.
Quote:
Romans 8:9 ESV
You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you.
Romans 8:14 ESV
For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
1 Corinthians 6:19 ESV
Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own.
James 2:26 ESV
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
John 6:63
It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all
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Hope this clarifies the stand where am i coming from.
Last edited by HITESH SHAH : 02-05-2021 at 02:55 PM.
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02-05-2021, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
Jung is an authority in psychology . Unfortunately I have not read him as extensively as you may have . So I simply can not comment whether he's right or wrong .
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What you presented was contrary to anything Jung said. And since you mentioned Ahamkara, that is what Jung based his model of the ego on. The unconscious and many of its processes is roughly parallel to the Sanskrit Chitta or Lower Mind, which creates the karas or the 'invented things' that the 'I' is made of.
'I' is a collection of invented things according to Eastern philosophy, and any 'I' that is perceived is an invented thing inventing another thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
Hope this clarifies the stand where am i coming from.All I can say I have read lot of thing like following Christianity quotes to base my inferences and hopefully u can see its nothing eastern or western . It's simply universal.
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While I respect your beliefs, the Bible isn't much of a source when it comes to psychology. It's certainly not Universal and since I'm an atheist.... As far as I can ascertain, neither Spirituality nor religion seem to have anything close to an objective concept of what we are beyond the physical beyond interpretations. When the discussion turns to "We are this and not that" then it comes down to mental health and maligned identification, not Spirituality, in that the discussion is then psychological detachment.
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02-05-2021, 03:22 PM
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Master
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 1,295
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spirituality/religion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
While I respect your beliefs, the Bible isn't much of a source when it comes to psychology. It's certainly not Universal and since I'm an atheist.... As far as I can ascertain, neither Spirituality nor religion seem to have anything close to an objective concept of what we are beyond the physical beyond interpretations. When the discussion turns to "We are this and not that" then it comes down to mental health and maligned identification, not Spirituality, in that the discussion is then psychological detachment.
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To think or believe spiritual / religious people wont have objective concepts and dont know psychological ideas, is bit naive .
While I can give umpteen illustration and explanation to prove my point , I would leave it open to your own interpretation / value judgement .
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03-05-2021, 08:35 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 6,874
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
who is I?
If I look at myself in the mirror, who is looking at me? Is it my brain? Can I open up my brain and find myself in there? Who is that is really there inside that head? My thoughts? If it is my thoughts, then who is perceiving those thoughts? my awareness? Then who is the one who becomes aware of their own awareness?
And who is the one that becomes aware of the one who becomes aware of their own awareness?
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Who AM I is a loaded question and has to have context .
It's the million dollar question and this is for some what leads one into the search of that .
Looking everywhere, inside and out not leaving a stone unturned, and for some renouncing everything that they think they are not .
So depending on context and where one is at there will be a reflection of that expressed and known from that vantage point .
Ultimately I AM everything and nothing as the wise saying goes .
So if you are coming from a context of I AM not the brain, this is correct, but it is also correct to say that I AM the brain .
x daz x
__________________
Everything under the sun is in tune,but the sun is eclipsed by the moon.
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03-05-2021, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH
To think or believe spiritual / religious people wont have objective concepts and dont know psychological ideas, is bit naive .
While I can give umpteen illustration and explanation to prove my point , I would leave it open to your own interpretation / value judgement .
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The only two real expressions of psychological ideas have been the ego and the self, and both of those have been badly misrepresented by Spiritual people. Even Eckhart Tolle represented the ego as the 'bad guy', something that the majority of Spiritual people do. As for the self........
I wouldn't think that many people on this thread would want to hear that for the most part, 'I' is the end product of the unconscious.
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06-05-2021, 08:19 PM
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Master
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenslade
I wouldn't think that many people on this thread would want to hear that for the most part, 'I' is the end product of the unconscious.
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Yeah absolute being without becoming, no awareness. The all that has no other.
And then, the all that is aware of itself. Being and becoming.
Like a mandlebrott fractal. Infinite. Yet this being is so infinite that it becomes aware of itself. Moving so infinitely fast, that it appears to be beside itself. Even tho it's still all one total thing, as all is one and one is all. Holographic.
So we are always made out of the very thing we're looking at.
__________________
Sharing perspective.
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07-05-2021, 12:31 AM
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Awareness of ourselves is self evident, we know from where we perceive. What is not self evident is where the boundaries of us are and not knowing this, we believe the thought stream from our brain and subconsciousness is somehow a product from us. "I think this or that," not really we are just identifying with and relaying what our brain came up with. But then we can use the brain and thought stream to try to express conceptually something we perceive. The brain is happy to produce thoughts about whatever we want. It's a tool that we can use or let use us.
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07-05-2021, 12:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ewwerrin
So we are always made out of the very thing we're looking at.
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Or whatever we are looking at is perceived, seen, felt, or experienced with the added noise of our thoughts. If fact, what we think about something obscures what is actually there, externally. The internal thought created self is like sunglasses or filters we perceive, see, feel, experience through. So we don't perceive what something is, we perceive what it is to "me" or the temporary ego.
I'm not sure the perceiver is created by what it is perceiving but it's perception sure is. We are like a movie camera with a ton of filters added, the filters are ego. Whatever the movie camera is pointed at, whatever the environment is it is in, is captured moment to moment through the filters. The spiritual path is basically learning to see without the filters. To see directly. Remove the filters the whole world opens up, much more is seen and experienced.
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07-05-2021, 02:25 AM
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Master
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 11,462
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When I finally stopped asking the question, who or what am I, is when I started to truly live my life, maybe deep inside I realized who or what I am ?.
__________________
A belief system is nothing but poison to your capacity to understand. Good words are used to hide ugly things. – Osho
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