Spiritual Realization

There has recently been a lot of discussion around the subject of the ego, and out of that has come another controversy around Spiritual Realization (SR).

Just what is SR? What is the significance and consequences of it? There are those who say there can be no realization of what you already are, and those who say it is just a figment of imagination because you can never be something you aren't, and many views in-between. It is a question at the very root of spirituality, which can be a very personal journey and understanding.

To start this discussion I am going to give my definition of SR. This will be one of many, and I'm not here to prove to anybody my definition is the 'one true' definition so afterwards I will back off and let discussion proceed. It's just what works for me, based on my own experience and my own understanding. Also, I am going to call it 'primary SR' as spirituality is not an exact science with a standard vocabulary. There are many 'realizations' to be made in spirituality, but the definition I will give I feel is primary for reasons I will explain.


'Spirit' is defined in the dictionary as 'the animating essence of something'. 'Metaphysical' is defined as 'beyond the physical'. With these two words we have the essence of spirituality, which can be phrased as 'Awareness of the animating essence beyond the physical'. What this means is to comprehend the world in a nonphysical way. A synonym for comprehend is 'realize'.

Of course we already naturally comprehend the world when we are born, and that is physically. In dry terms, the journey of SR is to move from a physical comprehension of the world to a spiritual comprehension. This is of major consequence, because when this is successfully accomplished not only does one comprehend the world completely differently, but also necessarily oneself. Moving to a spiritual comprehension means also now seeing yourself as a spiritual being, aware of your own animating nonphysical essence, instead of just just seeing yourself as a physical being, and also seeing others in the same way.

Explaining just how this is accomplished is impossible to someone with a purely physical comprehension. To the purely physical perspective, spirit does not exist. Remember, metaphysical means 'beyond the physical'. Can something be said to exist that by definition does not exist? The purely physical perspective gives GREAT resistance to comprehending spiritually. Generally, this is the primary impediment to SR. The two perspectives, physical and spiritual, are in many ways polar opposites. All the trappings of spirituality - the meditation, the literature, the mandalas, the monasteries, the gurus, the retreats, etc - is all a means to an end, of assisting in the cultivation of the opening of consciousness to the spiritual perspective.

And when that breakthrough comes, what will happen is that the mirror of consciousness will suddenly be turned back on itself. You will see through the physical perspective for what it is, and your sense of self will suddenly be expanded in a way that you never thought possible. Your sense of self, of what and who you are, will suddenly be transformed.

That is why I call it primary SR. There are many other realizations to be made, explorations of self and the greater spiritual universe that will continue, if you let it. Of course the purely physical perspective quite literally cannot comprehend this and will refuse to accept it - but to the individual who questions life and existence and suspects there must be more, he will begin to seek, and if he perseveres, he will find. It happens more than you think.

I suppose it does depend on where one's coming from and the path being followed. By this I mean nature and nurture combined with a spiritual tradition. That being said I'll give my take.

At its core it's experiential realization of Spirit, however one wishes to label it. I choose the Advaita perspective of Sat-Chit-Ananda, or Existence-Consciousness-Bliss. To simplify it and in the terms of Advaita I'll use Self-Realization and Consciousness.

Self-Realization is realizing one's true nature is Consciousness, and it has to be experiential, not intellectual. It's also on a continuum and through Awakening experiences, each one placing one more firmly in that state of being until ultimately reaching a total and irreversible state: Enlightenment.

One might have an Awakening experience and the duration might be seconds, minutes, hours, days or longer, but inevitably it subsides. However it leaves an indelible mark on the mind. It cannot be unexperienced. Even after subsiding I'd say one is Self-Realized but still affected by the ups and downs of life, just not to the extent they were prior to the first Awakening experience. One can also catch one's self more quickly when subject to an emotional reaction and recover more quickly. The more Awakenings, the less one is affected by life's slings and arrows.

EDIT: It's also said the first Awakening experience is a massively profound experience, and subsequent ones less so each time. It becomes a more "normal" occurrence as the reverberations of the prior ones are always present to some degree. The territory, that state of being, is more and more familiar.

Thank you for your great post JASG. Very much appreciated!

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

Self-Realization is realizing one's true nature is Consciousness, and it has to be experiential, not intellectual. It's also on a continuum and through Awakening experiences, each one placing one more firmly in that state of being until ultimately reaching a total and irreversible state: Enlightenment.

Yes. Our 'spirit' is more like an energy. It is not a 'thing'. It transcends time and space. And even if you 'want' to believe, nothing can replace the actual experience. It is a process of dissociating from the physical consciousness - though prior to the completion of the process, one must be firmly 'grounded' in order for the integrations to be most successful, IMO.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

One might have an Awakening experience and the duration might be seconds, minutes, hours, days or longer, but inevitably it subsides. However it leaves an indelible mark on the mind. It cannot be unexperienced. Even after subsiding I'd say one is Self-Realized but still affected by the ups and downs of life, just not to the extent they were prior to the first Awakening experience. One can also catch one's self more quickly when subject to an emotional reaction and recover more quickly. The more Awakenings, the less one is affected by life's slings and arrows.

Yes. You eventually come back to 'normal' mind, but consciousness has been altered. From the new perspective, events have an entirely new meaning.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

It's also said the first Awakening experience is a massively profound experience, and subsequent ones less so each time. It becomes a more "normal" occurrence as the reverberations of the prior ones are always present to some degree. The territory, that state of being, is more and more familiar.

I think this is very individual. The initial experience can be quite a shock, but depending on the individual spirit may have more in store that can be just as shocking if not more. The experiences are rarely what we expect - sometimes drastically so.

Originally Posted by Kioma

Yes. You eventually come back to 'normal' mind, but consciousness has been altered. From the new perspective, events have an entirely new meaning.

This is probably why these discussions go sideways. Awakening experiences place one out of one's mind. Literally. LOL!

Even though the experience does leave that indelible mark on mind, intellect is wholly incapable of formulating the words needed to properly explain it. In fact the words just don't exist.

Aside from an ordained Buddhist monk and one close friend I've not shared my experience outside this forum and some select YouTube video comment sections on the topic. It would be an exercise in futility and they'd probably think I'm off my rocker.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

This is probably why these discussions go sideways. Awakening experiences place one out of one's mind. Literally. LOL!

Even though the experience does leave that indelible mark on mind, intellect is wholly incapable of formulating the words needed to properly explain it. In fact the words just don't exist.

Aside from an ordained Buddhist monk and one close friend I've not shared my experience outside this forum and some select YouTube video comment sections on the topic. It would be an exercise in futility and they'd probably think I'm off my rocker.

From the physical perspective, spiritual experience is completely irrational. This is what I was on about too.

Ironically, words too have no real substance. They are arbitrary conceptual constructs which only convey information through mutual consent. There are words, like spirit, energy, consciousness, ego, enlightenment, mystical, etc, that are used to try to discuss spiritual issues - but the real issue is trying to bridge the gap between the physical and the spiritual awarenesses, both which use those words very differently, and each in ways that try to perpetuate it's own perspective.

It takes a lot of openness, patience and understanding for anything meaningful to be conveyed in those circumstances.

Originally Posted by Kioma

From the physical perspective, spiritual experience is completely irrational. This is what I was on about too.

Ironically, words too have no real substance. They are arbitrary conceptual constructs which only convey information through mutual consent. There are words, like spirit, energy, consciousness, ego, enlightenment, mystical, etc, that are used to try to discuss spiritual issues - but the real issue is trying to bridge the gap between the physical and the spiritual awarenesses, both which use those words very differently, and each in ways that try to perpetuate it's own perspective.

It takes a lot of openness, patience and understanding for anything meaningful to be conveyed in those circumstances.

This is why I'm more than willing to engage in endless back-and-forth on this topic. Some take it as argumentative and even evasive, but it's not. It's just my attempt to explain the unexplainable. I can't implant the memory of my experience directly into another's mind and I can't find the precise and universally understandable words, phrases and sentences to convey it through language. So I use the spiritual tradition and its analogies and metaphors I'm familiar with, seeking something that might resonate.

I mostly don't even find it frustrating. On the contrary I find it interesting and even amusing. If I "look" closely enough, really pay attention, I can "see" the same types of cognitive processing rattling around in my mind. Disbelief, indignation, threats to the sovereignty of ego-self, feelings of superiority, etc... From my perspective and experience this is where it's beneficial to find and rest in that other "space" and this is what takes practice. It is there and available to everyone. It's our nature and hiding in plain sight.

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

This is why I'm more than willing to engage in endless back-and-forth on this topic. Some take it as argumentative and even evasive, but it's not. It's just my attempt to explain the unexplainable. I can't implant the memory of my experience directly into another's mind and I can't find the precise and universally understandable words, phrases and sentences to convey it through language. So I use the spiritual tradition and its analogies and metaphors I'm familiar with, seeking something that might resonate.

I mostly don't even find it frustrating. On the contrary I find it interesting and even amusing. If I "look" closely enough, really pay attention, I can "see" the same types of cognitive processing rattling around in my mind. Disbelief, indignation, threats to the sovereignty of ego-self, feelings of superiority, etc... From my perspective and experience this is where it's beneficial to find and rest in that other "space" and this is what takes practice. It is there and available to everyone. It's our nature and hiding in plain sight.

Again, great post JASG.

What else is the physical perspective that we are born with but our evolved animal intelligence, our will to survive? We see this demonstrated every day in 'law of the jungle' politics and all the personal and world-wide dramas of wickedness and depravity, displays of brute strength, intimidation, repression and worse. The physical perspective innately places ourselves at the center of the universe, alone, our priorities and needs first, fear our number one motivation, and therefore subjugation of everything else our priority. It is the source of ego, pride, self-importance. The physical perspective informs our mental processes from our very first thoughts.

The spiritual perspective is a complete inversion of the aspect and values of the physical perspective. This is what makes SR such a shock.

So how is SR achieved? We come out of the universe, but the universe comes out of spirit, so it is inside us too. We just need to relax, open up to it, and let it happen.

"Let go," says spirit.

"If I do I'll die," replies the physical perspective.

This is what makes SR both the easiest and the hardest evolution imaginable. Many who seek SR find themselves stuck, caught between the physical/spiritual divide, effectively powerless in the grip of their own power. I feel the closer one gets to SR, the worse the fear can get, and the more the physical perspective can fight back, rationalizing and inventing one justification after another to cast doubt on SR. And it stands to reason - the 'law of the jungle' is entirely appropriate in the jungle. Ignored, you will find yourself someone's dinner very quickly. It is quite literally our corporeal nature. Dropping all of our defenses in such an open fashion goes against everything millions of years of evolution has given us. Are we ready to evolve further? That is the test.

And when we come back from spiritual experience the physical perspective is still there - and a good thing too. We are still corporeal beings, we still need to eat, to find shelter, to relate to others - to continue our spiritual training and to try to spread a little light in the world, if possible. The difference is we no longer identify with the physical perspective. Our world has become much bigger than that.

Of course it's not always as clear cut as that. We utilize the physical perspective in our relations with anything physical, including the physical aspect of others. At times our spiritual motivations get lost in the motivation to 'spread the light'. Laugh all you want, it is what it is - at least I know it is in my case, and believe me, I have my regrets. This is the utility of spiritual practice - and yes, I have been neglecting mine for far too long, but recently I have endeavored to renew my practice, and it feels really good.

[lemex]

Originally Posted by JustASimpleGuy

This is probably why these discussions go sideways. Awakening experiences place one out of one's mind. Literally. LOL!

Even though the experience does leave that indelible mark on mind, intellect is wholly incapable of formulating the words needed to properly explain it. In fact the words just don't exist.

Aside from an ordained Buddhist monk and one close friend I've not shared my experience outside this forum and some select YouTube video comment sections on the topic. It would be an exercise in futility and they'd probably think I'm off my rocker.

I don't know why I continually hear this, of course the words exist and I've never understood this negativity. The words are the experience. When saying words don't exist this is like saying the experience doesn't exist. I only need to understand it is not my experience. It is simply imo as experience has no meaning so do the words. How can one have clarity of experience without experience, it to does not exist. Btw, typically being spiritual is so often seen as having to give up something and losing something, there is a lot of fear.

In fact there is an interesting dilemma here that must be accepted then we are saying all experience, all words. If one cannot explain what is spiritual one cannot explain what is not spiritual.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Kioma

Again, great post JASG.

What else is the physical perspective that we are born with but our evolved animal intelligence, our will to survive? We see this demonstrated every day in 'law of the jungle' politics and all the personal and world-wide dramas of wickedness and depravity, displays of brute strength, intimidation, repression and worse. The physical perspective innately places ourselves at the center of the universe, alone, our priorities and needs first, fear our number one motivation, and therefore subjugation of everything else our priority. It is the source of ego, pride, self-importance. The physical perspective informs our mental processes from our very first thoughts.

The spiritual perspective is a complete inversion of the aspect and values of the physical perspective. This is what makes SR such a shock.

So how is SR achieved? We come out of the universe, but the universe comes out of spirit, so it is inside us too. We just need to relax, open up to it, and let it happen.

"Let go," says spirit.

"If I do I'll die," replies the physical perspective.

This is what makes SR both the easiest and the hardest evolution imaginable. Many who seek SR find themselves stuck, caught between the physical/spiritual divide, effectively powerless in the grip of their own power. I feel the closer one gets to SR, the worse the fear can get, and the more the physical perspective can fight back, rationalizing and inventing one justification after another to cast doubt on SR. And it stands to reason - the 'law of the jungle' is entirely appropriate in the jungle. Ignored, you will find yourself someone's dinner very quickly. It is quite literally our corporeal nature. Dropping all of our defenses in such an open fashion goes against everything millions of years of evolution has given us. Are we ready to evolve further? That is the test.

And when we come back from spiritual experience the physical perspective is still there - and a good thing too. We are still corporeal beings, we still need to eat, to find shelter, to relate to others - to continue our spiritual training and to try to spread a little light in the world, if possible. The difference is we no longer identify with the physical perspective. Our world has become much bigger than that.

Of course it's not always as clear cut as that. We utilize the physical perspective in our relations with anything physical, including the physical aspect of others. At times our spiritual motivations get lost in the motivation to 'spread the light'. Laugh all you want, it is what it is - at least I know it is in my case, and believe me, I have my regrets. This is the utility of spiritual practice - and yes, I have been neglecting mine for far too long, but recently I have endeavored to renew my practice, and it feels really good.

Thanks u n JASG for nice topic full of insights. Now I m happy u have started using words to express ineffable SR for the benefit of others. Also your 'nothing' in tagline is 'everything'.
Once again thanks for sharing it.

[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by lemex

I don't know why I continually hear this, of course the words exist and I've never understood this negativity. The words are the experience. When saying words don't exist this is like saying the experience doesn't exist. I only need to understand it is not my experience. It is simply imo as experience has no meaning so do the words. How can one have clarity of experience without experience, it to does not exist. Btw, typically being spiritual is so often seen as having to give up something and losing something, there is a lot of fear.

In fact there is an interesting dilemma here that must be accepted then we are saying all experience, all words. If one cannot explain what is spiritual one cannot explain what is not spiritual.

As Jasg said he's still using words but many times these are insufficient.

Technically nothing in the world is non-spiritual. Everything has spirit. However as explained spirituality is always in relation to materiality. Spirituality is to look beyond behind underneath after the physical- real essence.

In this sense scientific discoveries n inventions are nothing but some form of realization and scientist went beyond the apparent physical and gave us some insights we didn't have earlier.