Matthew 23:12

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I think Jesus had no interest in starting a new religion.

Maisy,

Books are written to show how this is true. The church has appropriated the name ‘Christ’ but, seriously, I suspect that Jesus would view many, if not most, as being Pharisees. They may be well intentioned but are buried by spiritual blindness…..the road map is there for the right path but the language barrier seems insurmountable…..

[sky]

(QUOTE MAISY) "I think Jesus had no interest in starting a new religion."


I agree, He had His own Religion...... Judaism.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by sky

I agree, He had His own Religion...... Judaism.

But then Jesus claimed to be the messiah talked about in Judaism's old testament and Judaism rejected Jesus as the messiah as he did not fulfill all the prophecies according to them. According to Judaism, the future Messiah will be instrumental in returning the Jewish people to their homeland, rebuilding the temple, and reigning as King during a time of great peace. I think that's why eventually a new religion was formed. The founder's of it believed Jesus was the messiah which did not fit with Judaism.

[Maisy]

To me, so many amazing souls, individuals and unique although Christians, have added so much depth within religions like Christianity. Like Saint Francis, Saint John Of The Cross, Thomas Merton, Alan Watts, Meister Eckhart, Mother Teresa etc. Too many to list. The teaching and teachers did not end with Jesus.

Imagine if Religion did not exist, where could these people dedicate their lives to the pursuits of truth and union with God? By having roles within the Church, they were free to explore inner and outer truths without the heavy responsibilities and worldly interests life in the secular world would bring.

But yes within the folds of a religion bad people can be found as well. So you have to take the good with the bad. But the nice thing is even today, if somebody was called to the religious life, they would find thousands of opportunities to live such as life, like as a monk, nun, or priest in the many different orders that exist.

[pixiedust]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Yes, yes!

An extraordinarily good post. Very insightful.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

I think that's why eventually a new religion was formed. The founder's of it believed Jesus was the messiah which did not fit with Judaism.

Christianity stemmed from the life, teachings and death of Jesus but was not started by Jesus, He lived and died as a Jew. Christianity emerged way after his death as an off shoot of Judaism, eventually separating and becoming its own Religion. Imo......

[Unseeking Seeker]

Originally Posted by Maisy

Matthew 23:12

"Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted."

I think this has huge really deep hidden meanings.

Resonates with what I wrote today on another thread “it’s subtraction, not addition that lifts the veil. We may call it meditation”

What is humility but resting overinflated ego or identity? The luminous Self* (*our true being) is recognised only when identity drops away.

[FallingLeaves]

based on my own punishments, I would personally guess that God likes humility much more than he likes pride...

as far as doing oneself... it becomes problematic because one of the things one finds one likes doing for oneself is engaging in group think. And despite what any rugged individualist might like to think to themselves, group think is so well liked that one gives up pretty much everything else for its names sake. (This wouldn't be an issue by the way if we didn't know about the fact of it to be able to set it as a goal to be attaining, but nor can pretending we don't know about the fact of it at this late date make a good input to a goal to be attaining).

the desire to try to get more money being the fundamental thing which prevents resolving the problems that face humanity. lol.
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That by the way is why reality seems so messed up, gotta give people a reason to walk away from group think by not allowing them to be indefinitely blissfully happy with the results of agreeing with and being agreeable to whichever group one has formed an identity with. Eventually you get to rethink whatever position you took, or instead you die...

It isn't though that the things we do are so bad, it is more like, we know things about what we are doing, and we set what we know here,now into our goals to attain this or that state of being without ever understanding we don't have enough information to make 'eternal' goals, then we do a lot of hard work to make it so, then we won't ever let go of what we've got, and we want more and more and more of all that... and we don't even understand, all this leads to is death. So as a result of our own ignorance we aren't allowed to set goals that really align with what we would want, deep inside... and still not understanding why we are in such pain when we don't want to be, we rail against whichever source presents itself today...

it comes back to humility... if you get that you don't understand, it is much more difficult to set 'hard' goals meant to get you to some specific state of being because you understand you just don't know what is best so there is room to allow change and growth in unforeseen ways rather than try to make it all be a certain way... Whereas if you are being prideful, you like what you've already got so much that you won't let yourself change and grow in any way other than the ones you've already prescribed as good based on whatever limited knowledge you happened to have at the time... e.g. you won't let yourself change and grow in any meaningful way.

and all that comes back to what was said about 'love' as being the way to relate to life and others. Part of it is to learn, to give others the freedom to learn, if they want, that they aren't locked in to some specific way of life... that they have some freedom to do things beyond the 'proper' if you will even if you would not like it... jesus did that in the extreme by inviting his own death instead of trying to be the kind of king the jewish people were looking for at the time...

and this comes back to allowing doing for oneself.