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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > General Beliefs

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  #531  
Old 27-04-2022, 10:19 AM
ImthatIm
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorkchop
Care to take a guess?
Anyone?
The middle path?
  #532  
Old 27-04-2022, 12:58 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
Ascender
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 981
 
ImthatIm wins the prize of the month. Yes … the Middle Path … so often hinted at and suggested … but rarely understood to the depth that it needs to be understood in order for it to “work” for anyone. So many take the Middle Path as “just being in-between” … but there’s more to it than that. Much more.

Perhaps this will be a future post.

VERY nice, ImthatIm.

( Now everyone can nod their head and say “Oh yeah … I knew that.” )

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Last edited by zorkchop : 27-04-2022 at 05:28 PM.
  #533  
Old 29-04-2022, 05:13 AM
JoeColo JoeColo is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Colorado, U.S.A.
Posts: 133
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zorkchop
Without a doubt … if anyone wishes to be clearly told what this-and-that is … throughout the studies … they will often wait a *long* time. These phases are left to the individual to *work with Life* to figure them out on their own … which is something individuals at this level will do from then on … more and more and more. This is somewhat of a distinction of one who works from the Lower Psychic Worlds and from the Pure God Worlds … one first learns via mind … and then learns via LIFE … beyond simple or clear-cut personal experiences.
In my opinion, there are many people ready to begin exploring the Pure God Worlds, but they don't have enough to work with. They need to "prime the pump" to get the whole thing going. They're not ready to be always "all-in" on things beyond the grasp of the logical mind. In order to begin these types of explorations, they would need to be ready to be sometimes all-in, especially in meditation. I include myself in this category. If they're not ready to take off their ""thinking caps" even for a moment, they're not ready.

They need a figurative, well-defined map of at least the nearby territory that one would arrive at when beginning this type of exploration. Hopefully, some of these figurative regions will be able to be viewed by either the logical mind, or "other-than-mind." When they observe that they get more accurate, but less definite, info from the latter, and want to learn more, then they're on The Path.

One comparison might be the logical mind views a static, flat picture, but a more expanded perspective reveals a three-dimensional, but moving picture. Nothing is still long enough for the logical mind to "lock onto" it.

Another comparison might be using roads, the well-defined, for the early explorations, then going "off-road" for the personal, and/or less well defined, and/or less well known explorations.

JoeColo
  #534  
Old 29-04-2022, 01:05 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2019
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Well expressed, JoeColo … and yes … a dilemma for many.

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  #535  
Old 02-05-2022, 01:24 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 981
 
Consideration 130 …

Simplicity …

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There is an old axiom that states … “It is very simple but it is *not* … easy.”

This turns out to be very true.

I mean … how much more simple can it be?

There is … God. Admittedly there are different “levels” or interpretations of Gods … but for the most part the individual will “live” under one or the other … although there can be variations within the Lower Psychic Worlds.

The Core Creator God … at the true Core of all Existence … is not a real “entity” … not a real “being” … but simply an Existence that just IS. This “God” exists and does what IT does. IT has no gender … IT has no form … IT has no real “place” that IT exists save for being at the center of all existence.

Then there is Divine Spirit … Pure Spirit … exuded and given off by this Core Creator God … similar to the aura or essence that we each give off. It is formless … it has no real body… it is a force … pre-energy … positive only … there is no negative element or atom as part of its make-up. It is un-directed … it is pre-manifested … it is the essence or sustenance or force or life force of all existence.

Last … there is Soul Itself … the same as the above … with one critical difference … It is given an actual spark or a tiny but all important facet of the Core Creator God ITSELF that gives Soul the individual sense of awareness. At the moment of creation … It too is “pure” … without personal or individual experience. It can learn and understand what It is through seeing, knowing, and being. Please ponder these three attributes as they give rise to Soul’s individual approach to understanding life … what we “see” … what we know /assume … leading to what we individually will “be.”

Soul is the focusing agent for Divine Spirit … in the Pure God Worlds … and is the focusing agent in the Lower Psychic Worlds when Soul Itself engages in incarnations wrapped in the Lower Psychic Worlds bodies for protection.

Soul … at one level or another … there being an organized or graduated structure to the entirety of existence … higher and lower … is responsible for all further manifestation … higher and lower. The Core Creator God sets Divine Spirit in motion … creates Soul … and then allows for the free will and learning of all.

There is no motion … no form … no conformed experience … no negative element to provide “action” to experiences … in the Pure God Worlds. Upon individual creation … Soul Itself has no concept of what It is. It’s own “being-ness” at that time is of pure ignorance … if those words can be used here. All within the Pure God Worlds is the essence of … pre-manifestation … non-specific … generalized … un-directed … un-focused … ( again … however you wish to word this to yourself. ) There are lofty entities that guide and direct even these worlds of Pure God Worlds to keep them somewhat differentiated enough to be distinctive … to give them a hierarchal structure in the first place … but that’s about all. These incredibly and highly developed “entities” of the Pure God Worlds have been in existence forever … just one “step” down from the Core Creator God IT-self … these entities will remain in existence forever and do not go through creation / continuance / destructive cycles as the entire set of the Lower Psychic Worlds do … taking eons to complete.

That’s it. In all of Existence … there are these three designations.

Since there is “nothing there” in the Pure God Worlds … there is no way for Soul to learn. It could “drift” forever and never even know It is an actual separate creation.

So … the Lower Psychic Worlds were created to throw Soul into a series of incarnations that puts everything outside of Itself so It can discover what It ultimately is … by first discovering what It is not. It is *not* … what It sees … nor is determined by what is outside of Itself. That … It learns … eventually. The Lower Psychic Worlds are those of sensation.

Since the “structure” or “composition” or “nature” of Soul Itself is such that It is of positive elements only … It cannot exist within the Lower Psychic Worlds which are comprised of both positive and negative elements so as to give form, structure, experience, action, and motion. Soul therefore is wrapped and encased within “bodies” or “sheaths” or “protections” when it unceremoniously dropped into the Lower Psychic Worlds for experience and learning.

If we were physically dropped into an arctic region … or forced underwater … we would need protection or the physical body would perish. It is along these lines that the Lower Psychic Worlds bodies were given to Soul Itself … upon It’s first submersion into the Lower Psychic Worlds.

This … is when the complications arise. It is eventually found that … mind … complicates. Mind is designed to be analytical. It must “sort through” the various conditions, situations, and experiences we each encounter here. There had to be a means whereby we could determine if any experience would be beneficial or detrimental to us.

Soul … encased in the Lower Psychic World bodies … must survive. During the initial “X” number of lifetimes … Soul will do anything to survive … leading to a formation of necessary preferences … often designated as “ego.” Though this designation is not quite true … it holds and prevails for a VERY long time.

Soul becomes what It focuses on … which is why It was created in the first place … focuses on what It believes to be true and real … all filtered by the Lower Psychic Worlds bodies … looking at everything as if looking through a pane of frosted glass or sunglasses. It builds a set of preferences that It prefers. The “tool” or “means” whereby all of this takes place ( mind ) has its own ability to protect and defend what it likes.

So the overall design of Existence is quite simple in its essence. It is mind that complicates … demanding that we favor this or that … or we want more of … or we resent such-and-such … etc … in an endless array of Lower Psychic Worlds experiences.

More next Monday.

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A 90-post index is found at thread post number 370 … page 37

A second index for posts 92 - 120 is on page 51 … post # 501


If sincere … I will respond to private messages

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  #536  
Old 04-05-2022, 08:18 AM
hazada guess
Posts: n/a
 
: zorkchop,
  #537  
Old 09-05-2022, 01:05 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
Ascender
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 981
 
Considerations 131 …

Uncertainty to Intuition to Faith …

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JoeColo brought up some quite insightful and honest viewpoints concerning moving on beyond the logical mind and into the Pure God Worlds. What he offered was quite true … there is little to go on … few experienced individuals to listen to … few sets of teachings that will honestly move one beyond the Lower Psychic Worlds … going “all-in” … the logical mind is naturally and fully avoidant in wanting to move beyond itself … and more. His post is #535.

Hesitation … skepticism … doubt … reservations … all are a natural part of the path … and one can ponder just what one “learns” from such experiences. I have often suggested the importance of courage / risk / strength / etc … and here the learning of these valuable and necessary facets begin to be developed to an extreme. There is nothing wrong with being skeptical. It guards against the acceptance of anything and everything as it comes “wandering by” … concepts and beliefs often put in ones way to test the resolve and the sincerity of the newcomer into the worlds beyond. Some can move rather quickly and easily through these phases. Others … not so much.

One’s intuition is amplified during this phase. One often “senses” what is to be done rather than taking logical determinations … these having been formed out of past experiences. Yes … one vacillates back and forth … stronger to less so … gaining ground … slowly leaning a bit more towards what one begins to understand yet not totally dismissing the experiences still taking place all around one. One begins to live in two worlds … and which one is given more attention or value slowly begins to unravel and new stances are tested … then re-tested … then somewhat counts upon … then lived. There is no “all in” … but more of an “I’ll add it to my lifestyle when it proves right to me in spite of what others say … one-at-a-time.”

Yes … this stretches the path out a bit … but it often proves worth it for your own well-being.

It is here that faith grows into the necessity that it is. There must be a faith that all of this does exist … for a reason … for our education … that there is the worlds beyond … that the goal or ideal exists … and one begins to hold and depend upon this faith. Faith has more to do with what is beyond or “outside” oneself … not-yet-experienced but having the faith that it exists at all. Though it may take many incarnations to develop … one slowly settles into allowing and abiding Pure Spirit … Divine Spirit … to bring your life perspective and interaction into what is best for the Whole of Existence … allowing you to begin to work with LIFE IT-self. There is still freedom of choice … but it is more along the lines of a freedom according to the laws and principles you live within and share with Divine Spirit IT-self … not a freedom of doing anything you wish any time anywhere from an egotistic or self-absorbed viewpoint. Detachment allows you to let go of the dominance of what we must have or what we must do … and the balance is reached so that you walk right in between either / or.

Most spiritual greats have whispered all of this to us using couched, vague, often-coded words. To do otherwise often brought death or banishment.

Intuition is more of an uncovering / discovery. You accept its insight. Faith is more of a “holding to” as one sets about redesigning goals and ideals … or to a simple “holding to” a larger viewpoint of Life. One tends to accept intuition … but what one will put their faith in must be chosen. Faith is an unseen assumption … bringing it always into the current viewpoint. One holds to it as “development” continues and deepens. Faith and assumption work hand-in-hand.

So much of what we have learned … and brought with us in each incarnation … is learned under duress … under coercion … many times under fear … and though we learn to obey … it is a form of control. Now we slowly wish to go above all of that and begin to beneficially learn the basic principles of LIFE upon which all is sustained … and then learn to life within them … because living according and with the Law is much easier than working against it. In the beginning phases … faith is a basic building block on developing this.

The factors of knowing, faith, realization, and experience are all separate factors. Each and all of these are steps along the way. It takes actual experience before belief can enter into the student. Without experience … no one can have realization. Without experience … no one can have knowing, faith, or realization.

No one can prove another’s experience. This is also why science can never prove any of the inner worlds … because no one can know of them until and unless they have experienced them. Experience … properly understood … leaves no doubt in the mind of the seeker. Belief is a rather early stage in it all. He must know the experience is true. Until you experience Self and God-Realization … you do not know anything about it. All the words that are written and spoken about the experience bring it all back into the mental realms. You must know the reality of the experience. Then you know.

Try to describe a landscape to a blind man. No matter how vivid or accurate your description … the individual without sight will never know until it is seen. This applies on many levels and definitions of “blindness.”

Faith comes only when you can see yourself truly as Soul. Until you reach self-realization you will always be under the influence of the psychic worlds … which is and are illusion. You cannot remove this illusion. BUT … you can become aware of its existence and the influence it has upon you. Then you can learn to see through it and dissolve it like a mist that fades before the morning sun.

All the worlds, all the knowledge of the divine works are within you. Therefore … you do not have to develop in order to reach enlightenment. Instead … you must unfold ! ! In a sense … the often-promoted concept of “we already know everything” is true … but it is the realization of just what it is we “know” … that is the path … so that we believe … then know … and then understand.

What gets in the way of more rapid learning?

What one believes to be true … but isn’t … learning to let go more than holding onto.

More next Monday.

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A 90-post index is found at thread post number 370 … page 37

A second index for posts 92 - 120 is on page 51 … post # 501


If sincere … I will respond to private messages

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  #538  
Old 09-05-2022, 03:29 PM
Miss Hepburn Miss Hepburn is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Southwest, USA
Posts: 24,767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zorkchop
Uncertainty to Intuition to Faith …
..It is here that faith grows … and one begins to hold and depend upon this faith.
It takes actual experience before belief can enter into the student ...without experience … no one can have knowing, faith, or realization.
Belief..
Man, great 'essay', not just a 'post, ya know?
I wanted to only add ONE more word along with faith, belief, knowing, experience, that works for me very much - 'Trust';
complete and utter trust in 'whatever' you may call the Divine.

This fits, a friend just sent me:
By R.Tagore

''Faith is the bird that feels the light
and sings when the dawn is still dark.
__________________

.
*I'll text in Navy Blue when I'm speaking as a Mod. :)


Prepare yourself for the coming astral journey of death by daily riding in the balloon of God-perception.
Through delusion you are perceiving yourself as a bundle of flesh and bones, which at best is a nest of troubles.
Meditate unceasingly, that you may quickly behold yourself as the Infinite Essence, free from every form of misery. ~Paramahansa's Guru's Guru
.


  #539  
Old 09-05-2022, 04:28 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
Ascender
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 981
 
I heartily agree … but I personally include that with Faith. I ran outta room … my posts are long enough … but deep … deep trust is what makes faith work as a living perspective … so to me … that’s built in … but nice add-on. It’s good to point that out.

Thanks Mizz H.

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  #540  
Old 16-05-2022, 01:01 PM
zorkchop zorkchop is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 981
 
Consideration 132 …

It is NOT … Unreal …

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This is another classic example of the either / or approach of mind … which leads to nothing but misinterpretation and so … misunderstanding. Such rather small misinterpretations can lead to massive limitations that handcuff any individuals understanding of Life around them … especially when trying to understanding it from the more broad … or Whole … picture.

So many have misinterpreted and so misunderstood that “all is illusion” … that especially the outer physical world is “unreal” … which leads to “suffering” … ( and this makes it all worse ) … thus leading to a dismissal of physical life around them … and if a more broad picture is desired … since the Lower Psychic Worlds bodies are “outside” or not part of Soul Itself … these in turn would also be considered “unreal” and “illusionary.”

Eventually one learns that no part of the entire perspective of LIFE can simply be … dismissed … or dumped into the “denial” trash can. Everything needs to be understood in playing some vital, teachable part in the understanding of Life as the Whole that IT is … and an individual can retract their focus on factors that play a severely limiting perspective. That does *not* dismiss or negate it.

Everything on the outer physical world is “illusionary” because it does not just happen to each individual … the outer conditions and experiences to not simply come floating along and capture the individual to be captured by the outer experience. All of this is driven by your inner perspective and understanding … which leads to the outer experiences being drawn to you as effects of what you perceive and carry within. So since the outer is not the “cause” but is the “effect” … “something else” is making the outer world what it is for each and every individual. That “something else” is your inner attitude and understanding of Life. You learn what is whirling around “inside” by what happens to you “outside.”

Now … before people begin to claim that “I didn’t do anything inwardly to bring this-or-that into my life” … understand two vital factors to all of this. 1) … whatever brought about any outward experience certainly does *not* have to have been set into action during the current incarnation. “Bad things happen to good people” more often than not is a result of past life scenarios. Exactly what that was can only be surmised from the circumstances that you must experience to balance it all out. LIFE does not play favorites. Cause and effect is exacting. It is up to very lofty entities to determine how someone will balance or pay off what. And 2) … since all of this applies to the individual … and since you cannot control someone else’s perspective or viewpoint … their viewpoint of YoU will lead them to interact with you by way of what *they* wish to do … how they wish to interact with you … and there’s not much you can do about this except … react. LIFE teaches us a *lot* through relationships … and will bring Person X into your life to help you learn more of … whatever … or … to balance a previous situation.

It has been said … that if any individual in your life plays any real, vital role in your present life … you can almost count on the two of you having shared previous interactions in previous lifetimes. This can certainly be “strangers” … finally coming into your life to fulfill their value to you … whether you like it or not. This … along with anything else … you can simply dismiss as “preposterous” … but it begins to explain a few things here or there if you allow this understanding to work for and with yo … which is true of most any recognition about Life.

It can be pointed out time and again that the inner brings forth the outer … but many disbelieve or are untaught. The metaphysicians teach us that the outer is an illusion.

The entire scenario is … our self-consciousness is never dictated by what happens outwardly around us … but … it *is* directed by our reactions to what happens to us. It’s not the outer circumstances … but our reactions to it. One step further … it is all the inner talk , our beliefs, expectations, emotional reactions, and maintained habits and patterns that control how e perceive what happens outwardly. So … illusion … is not the outer situation. The outer world is illusionary in the sense that we have brought it to ourselves inwardly.

At no point do we dismiss the outer worlds. They bring about and show us our preferred perceptions. Once again … it is a matter of walking between two worlds … acknowledging the outer because we have brought about the effect … but focusing more on the inner … because this is what will bring about new scenarios … often slowly … because physical realities take time to come about because of the slowness of life here.

The Path is not designed to strongly dismiss much of anything through denial or negation. That’s a mental ploy. It is much more beneficial to understand how the game is played and then adjust to it. If that means designing new habits to use … then get to it. If these habits are slow in coming … this is where the beginnings of faith come into play … we must have faith the eventual and new habitual perception will not only manifest but will be to our advantage.

The Path is also designed … to allow for discovering the “answer” to most anything you wish … if you are willing to put in the effort to find it … and then allow it to work for you. Please remember that this is all a process … a progressive unfolding … and a first grader will be unable to answer questions on advanced physics until one develops the capacity to understand at that level. If the “answer” you seek is “beyond” your current state of consciousness … your goal is clear.

Mind loves to simply dismiss this stuff. Most of the uses of “It really doesn’t matter … “ is simply that mind cannot find the answer and so … denies and dismisses. That absolves the individual from even trying … or finding someone who can truly help and not just regurgitate traditional views … for those that wish to move beyond them. For those that are developing the basics … information more often than not … abounds. You’ll do all of this either in this lifetime … or two lifetimes from now. LIFE can wait while each individual develops / unfolds.

Some may say … physical reality is at the bottom of the spiritual ladder so it doesn’t really matter. If it doesn’t matter … go stand in front of a car … and find out how much it matters. To find and determine just *how* it matters is an episode of discernment … of distinction … and not a handy escape route to dump everything into the “illusion” cauldron so one truly doesn’t understand its place in the Whole of Existence.

Look for individuals who can help you in uncovering the actual Self as Soul … find the individuals who are where you wish to be … in the traditional teachings or beyond … find out how they came by their own experiences to get them to where they are … find the complete set of teachings that helped them advance or unfold on the path … take on the teachings and listen to what the teachings suggest that you do … and move on.

More next Monday.

- - O-0-O-O-0-o - -

A 90-post index is found at thread post number 370 … page 37

A second index for posts 92 - 120 is on page 51 … post # 501


If sincere … I will respond to private messages

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