Salvation: how do you ensure salvation?

Morpheus:

Well, here is opportunity, ciel. What would you tell spammos here.

http://www.spiritualforums.com/vb/sh...t=72561&page=2

"Tut tut... 'stiff upper lip', you can do it... hi- ho, carry on."
"Yes... it's a miserable life, carrying all that burden of sin... but, onward!"

Hi Morpheus,

I would suggest to that person that they surrender to Jesus, take his yoke upon themselves and learn from him. When we stop trying to do things in our own strength, we have His strength to help us overcome. But doing things in God's strength doesn't mean there won't be challenges. Peter faced challenges, as did Jesus, ''the spirit is willing, the flesh is weak''.''Not my will be done by your will''.

I'm not even remotely saying that we have to carry the burden of sin. I wonder what it is that is stopping you from seeing that? I am suggesting, that from what Jesus said and his disciples taught, that we all have a choice of whether we are going to walk in complete surrender towards him, or if at some point, we will turn our back on him, because we aren't willing to let go of the things he asks us to.

I'd still like to hear how verse like those from Hebrews 6, and 2 Peter 2, and what Jesus says about ''he who endures to the end shall be saved'', fits into your understanding that salvation is not something one can lose?

Thanks.

Peace,
Ciel

[Morpheus]

Ciel, in my youth, when I first read those words in the verses you cited, I atributed them to an end times scenerio. Regarding the prophecies.
My perspective hasn't changed on that.

Even in the early history of the Faith, before Constantine, the reigning government offered believers the opportunity to save their mortal lives by recanting their faith in Christ. Which many refused to do. "Enduring to the end."
We know the fate of the disciples themselves, don't we?
Prophecies involving the "Beast" indicate that there will be a revival of sorts of that government, in the world, and a return to that situation.
Whether post rapture, or non is speculative.

That, there will be a future government which will be intolerant of the Gospel, and the Christian Faith.

Now, an excellent example will be that which has come and gone, involving the "Iron curtain". The horrors thereof for people of Faith. Which can be read about, such as in the book, "Tortured for Christ", and similar.

Originally Posted by Visitor

Thank you Enigmatic Spammos for your share.

I am not sure what you mean by "perseverance in sanctifying grace".

For me, even perseverance in maintaining sanctifying grace sets one up for losing it through assuming that they are sanctified.
Only by remaining humble can anybody hope to remain in contact with their understanding of God, let alone if they receive grace or not.

Sanctifying Grace does not mean you are sanctified, it is a state that helps you persevere in the love of God and obedience to the teachings and revelation of God: Bible, Commandments, teachings of the Church and saints. Humility is one of many virtues that helps the virtue of perseverance persevere. Other name for Sanctifying Grace is Habitual Grace since it is a state or a habit of permanent union with God. http://www.catholicculture.org/cultu...x.cfm?id=36272

Originally Posted by Visitor

I may request God to have mercy on my soul, but if I get it or not is up to God - not me. My request for mercy is a request for forgiveness and nothing more.

Humility is accepting this God and his revelation and grace is received once you decide to participate in the share of God’s love by worthily receiving the sacraments, which are the channels of grace.

Originally Posted by Visitor

For me, I do not care for being sanctified or for receiving God's grace. I only wish to express my love for God. This alone fulfills me to overflow.

Love of God is expressed and put into action with the help of God and this help is called grace. Grace bestows many gifts and virtues to help you love God.

Originally Posted by Visitor

If I start thinking about sanctification or receiving God's grace, it is because I wish it, and feel unworthy until I think I have got it.
Then in the thought that I have it is just a delusion, or wishful thinking, because God's grace cannot be claimed or contained.

Wrong, God’s grace can be claimed. It is claimed by fully accepting his revelation and his teachings which are clarified and taught by his Church and by worthily receiving the sacraments.

Originally Posted by Visitor

Also, regarding to the hyperlink of what someone claims Jesus has explained, my only reference to such is what is written in the bible.

Understandable

[Morpheus]

Note: A Parable of Jesus. Involving self justification vs. relying on the work of the Messiah, and declaring the liberty , redemption, and justification attained in that work.
Speaking to the religious leaders of the time.


A Father asked his two sons to accomplish some work for him...

The Parable of the Two Sons

29 "And he answered, 'I will not'; but afterward he regretted it and went.

30 "The man came to the second and said the same thing; and he answered, 'I will, sir'; but he did not go.

31 "Which of the two did the will of his father?" They said, "The first."
Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you that the tax collectors and prostitutes will get into the kingdom of God before you.…"

Mathew 21

Morpheus wrote:

Ciel, in my youth, when I first read those words in the verses you cited, I attributed them to an end times scenario. Regarding the prophecies.
My perspective hasn't changed on that.

Even in the early history of the Faith, before Constantine, the reigning government offered believers the opportunity to save their mortal lives by recanting their faith in Christ. Which many refused to do. "Enduring to the end."
We know the fate of the disciples themselves, don't we?
Prophecies involving the "Beast" indicate that there will be a revival of sorts of that government, in the world, and a return to that situation.
Whether post rapture, or non is speculative.

That, there will be a future government which will be intolerant of the Gospel, and the Christian Faith.

Now, an excellent example will be that which has come and gone, involving the "Iron curtain". The horrors thereof for people of Faith. Which can be read about, such as in the book, "Tortured for Christ", and similar.

__________________


Hi Morpheus,

Your interpretation is a reasonable one. However, I still don't see how it negates what I am saying. Even IF the comment from Jesus refers to just the end-time or periods of persecution, it doesn't change that fact that he says ''he who endures to the end shall be saved'', i.e. he who does not endure to the end shall not be saved''. It's still a relationship with God one dependant not just on God's Grace, but on our faith, for we are saved by Grace through faith, and that faith will be tested.

I still don't think you have commented on the verses from Hebrews 6. Here are the verses in question:

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

And the verses from 2 Peter 2:

20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

It would be good to get your thoughts on these verses in context with that other verse from Jesus.

Thanks.

Peace,
Ciel.

[Morpheus]

And, so this debate goes on, until the day of the Lord, Ciel. Meanwhile, I suspect that the Lord deals with things on an individual basis.

Joy is an important aspect of the Faith. So, I'd press again, from whence does it come?