200 Golden Hadiths.

[Please Leave Me]

Originally Posted by sky123

Do we realise how lucky we are to be able to make our own choices in who we marry/cohabit with and at what age we decide to leave the nest and move on. Free will is priceless.

excuse me .. do you live in middle east ?
or do you watch on news that a woman was married
against her will in middle east
and make decision that all women in middle east are married that way ?

what position you are in to make that claim
am middle eastern and living there
what is your base of claim ? one or ten news stories ?

[Please Leave Me]

Originally Posted by Clover

Yes, this I do recognize and I am very grateful. However, on the same token, although, we are very fortunate in the West to have these "privileges" we also should be respectful and be sensitive to other people's beliefs and cultures around the world. Many of these women are NOT suppressed, they are happy and accustomed to their way of living. They respect their religion and they respect their man. It has been this way for thousands of generations. The perception of freedom and happiness is different to everyone.

let me put it in very simple way
a western woman looks at eastern one dressing hair cover
she goes like .. what poor woman so oppressed
a eastern woman looks at western one showing off sexy clothes
she goes like ... man what a poor objectified woman

the values are different
the cultures are different
the religion is different

when i want to judge some one outside of my cultural
i judge them according to their cultural values not mine
the problem begins when some people think
that their cultural is the perfect role model
and anyone who doesn't follow it is slave and backward and oppressed
that's when things go sour and they start to attack other people cultures
thinking they're superior in culture wise

[sky]

Originally Posted by Shadow Of A Knight

excuse me .. do you live in middle east ?
or do you watch on news that a woman was married
against her will in middle east
and make decision that all women in middle east are married that way ?

what position you are in to make that claim
am middle eastern and living there
what is your base of claim ? one or ten news stories ?

Excuse me, where in my posting did I mention " middle east " ?
I live in the west as you will know and forced marriages happen here within some Religions and cultures even though it is now illegal.
We have many charities and organisations to help young women who are fleeing from abuse and forced marriages so I am not naive to think it only happens in your Country.

I can see where this thread is going to end, I was hoping to learn about your Religion but it seems everytime someone questions something they cannot agree with or understand it becomes an argument with insults flowing back and forth.

Thank you for your explainations, I will now back out of the thread, I did not start it to cause arguments.

[Please Leave Me]

Perhaps u should read your own post
Before u get all pouty here let me show u what u said

Originally Posted by sky123

Do we realise how lucky we are to be able to make our own choices in who we marry/cohabit with and at what age we decide to leave the nest and move on. Free will is priceless.

Subtle but clear
And your welcome for explainations
Which i copied and past from google btw
Anyone can find them

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Shadow Of A Knight

let me put it in very simple way
a western woman looks at eastern one dressing hair cover
she goes like .. what poor woman so oppressed
a eastern woman looks at western one showing off sexy clothes
she goes like ... man what a poor objectified woman

the values are different
the cultures are different
the religion is different

when i want to judge some one outside of my cultural
i judge them according to their cultural values not mine
the problem begins when some people think
that their cultural is the perfect role model
and anyone who doesn't follow it is slave and backward and oppressed
that's when things go sour and they start to attack other people cultures
thinking they're superior in culture wise

That's true. I'm fortunate to be raised cross culturally as a white boy in New Guinea. That gave me understandings about a person within their own culture. In research I did on cultural competency in social services, I conducted focus groups with multicultural and refugee services here in Sydney. The main finding of that, according to a culturally diverse range of research participants, was - if you want to get to know a culture, you have to get to know the people.

[Clover]

The problem is there is not enough cultural competency taught in the school systems or in the home. The only cultural awareness the majority of all Americans have is through major media,and well, we know how that story goes. Our school systems here still have a 1950's training model here. You would think with how much our economy has become globalized, they would teach kids more about the world. I was fortunate to be raised in a college town so there was a lot of different cultures.


Back to topic, this whole topic is about marriage.

How serious does Islam take the list the OP posted? Is it more figuratively and symbolic than literately?

Women may be married for four things,
Their wealth,
Their lineage,
Their beauty,
Their religion.

[Please Leave Me]

Originally Posted by Clover

Back to topic, this whole topic is about marriage.

How serious does Islam take the list the OP posted? Is it more figuratively and symbolic than literately?

as i said the hadith is stripped and trimmed it's incomplete in OP
i don't know why people keep posting half stuff
when they can search and find complete Hadith :


This hadeeth was narrated by al-Bukhaari (4802) and Muslim (1466) from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) who said: “A woman may be married for four things: her wealth, her lineage, her beauty and her religious commitment. Seek the one who is religiously-committed, may your hands be rubbed with dust (i.e., may you prosper).”


There is nothing in this hadeeth to suggest that it is enjoined or encouraged to marry a woman for her beauty, lineage or wealth. Rather what it means is that these are things that people look for in marriage. Some look for a wife who is beautiful, some look for a wife who is descended from a noble family, some look for a wealthy wife, and some look for a wife who is religiously-committed – and this last is what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) encouraged when he said: “Seek the one who is religiously-committed, may your hands be rubbed with dust (i.e., may you prosper).”


note that women may be married ( not should be married for four )
Mohammad suggested that the fourth reason is most valid correct one
love was essentional in all those cases of marriages i think
it's just whom people choosed to fall in love with
based on weather that person was beautiful .. wealthy . noble . or rightous religious

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Clover

The problem is there is not enough cultural competency taught in the school systems or in the home. The only cultural awareness the majority of all Americans have is through major media,and well, we know how that story goes. Our school systems here still have a 1950's training model here. You would think with how much our economy has become globalized, they would teach kids more about the world. I was fortunate to be raised in a college town so there was a lot of different cultures.


Back to topic, this whole topic is about marriage.

How serious does Islam take the list the OP posted? Is it more figuratively and symbolic than literately?

I think the topic is about the Hadiths, some of which I now know pertain to marriage. I have never read them, and only heard of it on this thread. I'm glad SotK can clarify them.

The research I did was used to influence cultural competency training strategies for social service providers. Theses training days have traditionally been a 'cultural competency expert' making a presentations on training days. This had been going on for years and was entirely ineffective. We researchers recommended that training days be entail cultural sharing activities such as a lunch with traditional foods, and that informal training where people would interact in different cultural groups traditional celebrations, for example. One strategy was directed at males where soccer was said to be internationally cultural and cultural sharing could be arranged with soccer bringing it together. In this recommendation, presenters would be drawn from the multicultural services themselves, so a mid eastern would present on that particular culture's appropriate norms, an aboriginal would present on own culture etc.

If applied in schools, I think the same principles would apply. This also gives opportunity for creative thinking where students would be involved in designing the cultural sharing activity, which could be a traditional dress, perhaps some art work that represents thei various traditions of whatever ideas there might be. People need to be involved and get excited about it, and get to know eachother through the process. Lastly, it was thought that this would be extremely helpful in establishing multicultural networks across different service providers.

[Clover]

Originally Posted by Shadow Of A Knight

as i said the hadith is stripped and trimmed it's incomplete in OP
i don't know why people keep posting half stuff
when they can search and find complete Hadith :


This hadeeth was narrated by al-Bukhaari (4802) and Muslim (1466) from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) who said: “A woman may be married for four things: her wealth, her lineage, her beauty and her religious commitment. Seek the one who is religiously-committed, may your hands be rubbed with dust (i.e., may you prosper).”


There is nothing in this hadeeth to suggest that it is enjoined or encouraged to marry a woman for her beauty, lineage or wealth. Rather what it means is that these are things that people look for in marriage. Some look for a wife who is beautiful, some look for a wife who is descended from a noble family, some look for a wealthy wife, and some look for a wife who is religiously-committed – and this last is what the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) encouraged when he said: “Seek the one who is religiously-committed, may your hands be rubbed with dust (i.e., may you prosper).”


note that women may be married ( not should be married for four )
Mohammad suggested that the fourth reason is most valid correct one
love was essentional in all those cases of marriages i think
it's just whom people choosed to fall in love with
based on weather that person was beautiful .. wealthy . noble . or rightous religious

Thanks for the clarification and additional information, Shadow. Yeah, I personally don't find it fair to pick and choose content that is chopped. The material is already too ambiguous because of the language barrier, it's especially vague to those like myself who aren't particularly versed in the religion.

[Clover]

Originally Posted by Gem

The research I did was used to influence cultural competency training strategies for social service providers. Theses training days have traditionally been a 'cultural competency expert' making a presentations on training days. This had been going on for years and was entirely ineffective

Unfortunately, this is a very common training model in the work force today. In universities even. And for kids? I don't think they have the attention span to comprehend and absorb the material in that format.It is very ineffective. We are lucky to have some language immersion programs, however, they are mostly in Spanish.

I think it's great that your researchers experimented with cultural sharing.Was this specifically in Australia? Gosh, the US is so large and wide spread. So much rural areas too. It would almost be impossible to get that experience here unless you lived in a large city like New York.