Did You Receive the Holy Spirit When You Believed?

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Mr_Determined

Clearly not, baptism is not essential for salvation.

OT saints were saved by faith, without baptism.
Many were saved in the NT without baptism.
The thief on the cross was saved without baptism.

Trust Jesus for Salvation, people are saved by faith in Christ without the water works.

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." Acts 16:31 KJV

I did not know the OT had Saints. Can you name a few of these Saints?

What OT saints were saved by faith, without baptism?

[Hawaiian Dreams]

Originally Posted by sky123

Why would you pray for something that you don't understand ?

If you look into the ritual of Baptism according to different Denominations you will see it varies, you don't need to go to a Church but can do it yourself. Early Christians performed it in the desert, alone and in solitude.

I just had it in my heart to do because I believe in God and Jesus Christ and it is something written about in the Bible. I didn't actually take the time to learn about its meaning until now, but knew in my heart it was something I wanted.

Thank you for sharing about the early Christians. For now, I will hold off on doing it on myself. I want the time to be right, and I want it to be performed by the right source.

[quote=Mr_Determined]Clearly not, baptism is not essential for salvation.


Trust Jesus for Salvation, people are saved by faith in Christ without the water works.

/QUOTE]

Mr_Determined,

I can agree with this. Baptism, as practiced, is largely symbolic. However there is another possibility. It is possible that at one time baptism was used as an initiation rite. Consider that a Near Drowning Experience(NDE) could result in an NDE(Near Death Experience). It would have been a fast track approach to spiritual realization. There have been those that suspected that the death of Lazarus was the outcome of a botched initiation rite. Just saying....) At any rate most still consider that baptism represents a death to old life.

[BigJohn]

Baptism seems to have been a carry forward belief from Judaism.

In Judaism, if a person became uncleaned, touched something unclean, etc. they were put in quarantine for a specific period of time.
Then....... that was finally changed to a baptism..... preferably in cool, moving water and were submerged.

When John the Baptist was doing his baptisms, baptisms seemed to have changed as to purpose.

When Christianity emerged, Baptisms took another change......

[Mr_Determined]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

I did not know the OT had Saints. Can you name a few of these Saints?

What OT saints were saved by faith, without baptism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono...stament_Saints


We have for the record of many people in the Bible who were saved without baptism. God has never had but one plan of salvation. In the Old Testament it was "not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4). In fact, the eleventh chapter of Hebrews tells us of case after case of people in the Old Testament times who were saved by faith. Acts 10:43 makes it clear that the only plan of salvation taught in the Old Testament was by faith in Christ, just as it was preached in the New Testament. There, Peter said:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

Remember, there never was any plan of salvation but by faith. Every Old Testament sacrifice and ceremony was a picture, shadow and type of the Lord Jesus Christ, "the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world!"

There is not a word in the Old Testament about baptism and no record of a single person ever being baptized before John the Baptist began it. Baptism, then, is not a part of God's plan of salvation.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation: but IS PASSED from death unto life. "John 5:24. KJV

The same is also found in John 6:47.

The whole point of being baptized is simply the REASSURANCE of a believer's FAITH at some stage AFTER they have read, heard and believed His word into their hearts, renewed their minds and accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior.

[Mr_Determined]

[quote=Molearner]

Originally Posted by Mr_Determined

Clearly not, baptism is not essential for salvation.


Trust Jesus for Salvation, people are saved by faith in Christ without the water works.

/QUOTE]

Mr_Determined,

I can agree with this. Baptism, as practiced, is largely symbolic. However there is another possibility. It is possible that at one time baptism was used as an initiation rite. Consider that a Near Drowning Experience(NDE) could result in an NDE(Near Death Experience). It would have been a fast track approach to spiritual realization. There have been those that suspected that the death of Lazarus was the outcome of a botched initiation rite. Just saying....) At any rate most still consider that baptism represents a death to old life.

What your describing there is 'Waterboarding', which is a torture method used in some rare and extreme cases of enhanced interrogation. Far from baptism!

[sky]

Originally Posted by Mr_Determined

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono...stament_Saints


We have for the record of many people in the Bible who were saved without baptism. God has never had but one plan of salvation. In the Old Testament it was "not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4). In fact, the eleventh chapter of Hebrews tells us of case after case of people in the Old Testament times who were saved by faith. Acts 10:43 makes it clear that the only plan of salvation taught in the Old Testament was by faith in Christ, just as it was preached in the New Testament. There, Peter said:

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

Remember, there never was any plan of salvation but by faith. Every Old Testament sacrifice and ceremony was a picture, shadow and type of the Lord Jesus Christ, "the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world!"

There is not a word in the Old Testament about baptism and no record of a single person ever being baptized before John the Baptist began it. Baptism, then, is not a part of God's plan of salvation.

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, HATH everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation: but IS PASSED from death unto life. "John 5:24. KJV

The same is also found in John 6:47.

The whole point of being baptized is simply the REASSURANCE of a believer's FAITH at some stage AFTER they have read, heard and believed His word into their hearts, renewed their minds and accepted the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior.

Baptism existed way before JTB.....

[Mr_Determined]

Originally Posted by sky123

Baptism existed way before JTB.....

Please exhibit some evidence to validate your claims ?

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Mr_Determined

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrono...stament_Saints

THANKS!

I did not realize the Old Testament had Saints.

But then.... this is a Catholic belief, not something perpetuated in the Old Testament.

On the other hand, I would find it interesting to see candles devoted to Saint Adam or Saint Noah.

Why isn't there a Saint Eve?

[Miss Hepburn]

I was 'high' many times in my life...Cosmic Consciousness, transcendent altered states (no drugs)---
But, I received the Holy Spirit,
realizing later I was slain in the Spirit...when
I went to an altar call in a Charismatic Church and
was Baptized in the Holy Spirit...not realizing I had received Gifts!