Christianity / Being saved

[Spiritual_Light]

I am wondering if anyone here can help me understand a few things.

Please forgive me if this topic is in the wrong section. I'm unsure if this should be here or in the general beliefs section.

Firstly, why does Christianity declare people as 'saved' when they accept and put faith in Jesus?

As a spiritual person, my understanding is we are not saved, because we still have to keep reincarnating because of karma and spiritual growth.

Secondly, is it possible Christianity became vastly different when the Roman Empire adopted it and changed many things?

Thirdly, if Jesus didn't save us from sin, what was his real purpose and why is the cross still a very powerful spiritual instrument?

Fourthly, how would you interpret seeing a vivid vision of Jesus in your head upon waking which lasted 30 mins when you are not a religious person or Christian?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Spiritual_Light

I am wondering if anyone here can help me understand a few things.

Please forgive me if this topic is in the wrong section. I'm unsure if this should be here or in the general beliefs section.

Firstly, why does Christianity declare people as 'saved' when they accept and put faith in Jesus?

As a spiritual person, my understanding is we are not saved, because we still have to keep reincarnating because of karma and spiritual growth.

Secondly, is it possible Christianity became vastly different when the Roman Empire adopted it and changed many things?

Thirdly, if Jesus didn't save us from sin, what was his real purpose and why is the cross still a very powerful spiritual instrument?

Fourthly, how would you interpret seeing a vivid vision of Jesus in your head upon waking which lasted 30 mins when you are not a religious person or Christian?

Interesting questions to many to try and answer in one go.
1. Saved from what ?

[Spiritual_Light]

Originally Posted by sky123

Interesting questions to many to try and answer in one go.
1. Saved from what ?

From sin.

It is my understanding Christianity teaches that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross paid for our sin. So Christianity says if you accept this, and believe and have faith in Jesus, you are saved from your sin and reborn.

But it is also my spiritual understanding our sin is still punishing us regardless of whether you accept and have faith in Jesus, simply because we still have to return and incarnate over and over to work on karmic debt and growth. That isn't to say that we won't go to heaven, but it means after we die and spend some time there we will need to come back to Earth again. This is also confirmed in many NDE experiences.

So what I'm trying to figure out is, if Jesus didn't really save us from sin, what did he really do?

[sky]

Originally Posted by Spiritual_Light

From sin.

It is my understanding Christianity teaches that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross paid for our sin. So Christianity says if you accept this, and believe and have faith in Jesus, you are saved from your sin and reborn.

But it is also my spiritual understanding our sin is still punishing us regardless of whether you accept and have faith in Jesus, simply because we still have to return and incarnate over and over to work on karmic debt and growth. That isn't to say that we won't go to heaven, but it means after we die and spend some time there we will need to come back to Earth again. This is also confirmed in many NDE experiences.

' So what I'm trying to figure out is, if Jesus didn't really save us from sin, what did he really do?

'
I believe He tried to teach us how to save ourselves. I don't personally believe in ' The Sin Story ' and the Crucifixion etc: . You mentioned Karma and that's exactly what I believe, we reap what we sow and we can only save ourselves

I'm sure others will give you there interpretations later...

[Honza]

My take is that Jesus is a 'God' based being. Everyone else that we know here on earth is an 'I' based being. From Buddha to Baba to Shiva to Allah....all these Gods/Beings have their reality based in the 'I'.

It is from the Universal I that Christ saves us. It is like we slumped from being God into being I. Only Christ can bring us back to being God again. Otherwise we will be 'I' forever.

It might take us many lives with Jesus for Him to finally change us back into God again and save us from the 'I'.

[Honza]

The alternative is that Jesus is not the Messiah and in fact was trying to teach us that we are our own saviors. It could be that all God is based in the 'I'. It could be that God and 'I' are inseparable.

The truth is that I do not KNOW.

[Aknaton]

Originally Posted by Spiritual_Light

I am wondering if anyone here can help me understand a few things.

Please forgive me if this topic is in the wrong section. I'm unsure if this should be here or in the general beliefs section.

Firstly, why does Christianity declare people as 'saved' when they accept and put faith in Jesus?

As a spiritual person, my understanding is we are not saved, because we still have to keep reincarnating because of karma and spiritual growth.

Secondly, is it possible Christianity became vastly different when the Roman Empire adopted it and changed many things?

Thirdly, if Jesus didn't save us from sin, what was his real purpose and why is the cross still a very powerful spiritual instrument?

Fourthly, how would you interpret seeing a vivid vision of Jesus in your head upon waking which lasted 30 mins when you are not a religious person or Christian?

I like your questions, and honestly was touched by the Holy Spirit to respond to them.

1. The truth is that there are many different people with differing opinions as to what being saved means. With all honesty, a great deal of them come from human understanding, and we are told in the Bible that we ought not to rely on our own understanding. Well, Jesus says that a person is Born Again when they are born of water and the Spirit; identified with Jesus Christ in his human and Godly nature. This is Salvation, to be Born Again in this way and then continue under the guidance of the Holy Spirit as one become more and more like Jesus.

About karma and reincarnation, Jesus blood was payment for ones own Karma (so long as they accept it and have signed the new contract/covenant). I see reincarnation on the physical earth as a sign of failure to escape Maya. If truly a person has transcended, then they will not comeback here at all. That which is born of the flesh is of the flesh.

2. Here, it comes down to human opinions. If human opinions and understanding were used to form a particular sect, then it is at variance with the ways of the Holy Spirit.

4. Here, we come down to personal beliefs. If we see Jesus as the figure head of religion, then this belief can work for us, and our creative nature will respond by providing us with experiences that align with our beliefs. Jesus just came to get back what was lost, you can call him a soul collector.

I would advise that you should let go of all beliefs that you are holding onto. He wants you to let go and let Him reveal to you about what 'this' is all about. Let go, and let God. There is definitely no God in another person's opinion.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Honza

The alternative is that Jesus is not the Messiah and in fact was trying to teach us that we are our own saviors. It could be that all God is based in the 'I'. It could be that God and 'I' are inseparable.

The truth is that I do not KNOW.

The truth is I love your perceptions

Originally Posted by Spiritual_Light

From sin.

It is my understanding Christianity teaches that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross paid for our sin. So Christianity says if you accept this, and believe and have faith in Jesus, you are saved from your sin and reborn.

But it is also my spiritual understanding our sin is still punishing us regardless of whether you accept and have faith in Jesus, simply because we still have to return and incarnate over and over to work on karmic debt and growth. That isn't to say that we won't go to heaven, but it means after we die and spend some time there we will need to come back to Earth again. This is also confirmed in many NDE experiences.

So what I'm trying to figure out is, if Jesus didn't really save us from sin, what did he really do?

Well, if someone says they accept and have faith in Jesus, yet don't seem to be saved from their sins, it could be that they don't really accept and have faith in Jesus, and so go on sinning and facing the karmic music.

Maybe, though they want to, they don't really understand what they claim to have faith in, and so can't really accept it. Maybe if they do come to understand it, in their head and heart, they will accept the truth of it, stop sinning, and be freed from that karmic cycle. IKD, as I can't claim to be there, but it seems like it just might be the way it works.
.

[Spiritual_Light]

Some really good answers here.

I just want to add a little background to why I mentioned the image of Jesus that I saw:

Basically, I have never been religious or spiritual in my life previously, but later in my life I have been going through a very difficult time in my life due to ill health. At that that time, 3 years ago, I felt hopeless. I really did not feel good about anything. But one morning upon awakening, a vivid image of Jesus was in my head. He was looking at me with sadness. As I climbed out of bed to turn the light on, my light bulb broke (which I later realise is a communicator for me sign wise regarding spiritual matters when they flicker or break). From this experience, which was very striking and profound for me at the time, I intuitively felt this was Christ asking why I hadn't come to him. So I spent the next whole year exploring Christianity and praying and becoming more spiritual. At the end of the next 3 years, I had ventured into other spiritual beliefs and knowledge because I wasn't able to explain all of my growing spiritual experiences by just reading the bible alone, which led me to becoming more spiritual than religious.

I guess why I'm here asking questions about Christianity in the context of being saved is because through my spiritual experiences I have seen truth to aspects of Christianity, but also other beliefs as well such as reincarnation - which I learnt personally about for my own life from a psychic medium who gave me a reading. This is a simplification of my experiences for saying I have experienced truth in both, but I guess what I'm saying is, I find it hard to renounce Christianity outright like some people do in spirituality because of my particular experiences. So I would say I'm perhaps both Spritual and Christian, but I'm still exploring, learning, and trying to better understand my own experiences by expanding my understanding, but I am using my own discernment and intuition to help guide me.