Spirituality, honesty and believing .

...I would first begin by saying that the first principle of spirituality for some who wants to embark on this path is 'honesty'.

then again as from my training school I have learned... 'faith' that seems to be the general column of the spirituality class is rather not so stable.

I have learned that there are four roads in terms of believing, forgive me if I don't remember precicely the names of each ........ but to crack on my own road straight through the direction said that you have to believe without believing...

This has gained depth in me... and allowed my spirit to be free-er

(hope this help the reader...)

Of course there are many more elements of spirituality istself ( as a side road I followed and following that have gained depth.

Blessings, enjoy.~ ~~

[ocean breeze]

Originally Posted by Nick96intent

...I would first begin by saying that the first principle of spirituality for some who wants to embark on this path is 'honesty'.

then again as from my training school I have learned... 'faith' that seems to be the general column of the spirituality class is rather not so stable.

I agree. But i think people should honestly question their own honesty. Almost the entire world seems to believe that they are honest, real, and mature beings and i'm just not seeing it anywhere or in anyone. It would be very easy for me to say that about myself and believe that to be true of myself and feel content and happy within myself. It would be easy for me to do some meditation and prayer and believe that i'm going somewhere with it or that i've gone somewhere with it. Seems people are honest when its easy but rarely when its difficult.

As for faith. I wish my faith was stronger. Letting go would be easier.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by ocean breeze

As for faith. I wish my faith was stronger.

May I ask what you wish your faith was stronger 'in'.
Cuz it could be so many things that your faith is not strong in. Ya know what I mean?
I think it still is on topic ...you're being very honest which is a big deal.

[ocean breeze]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

May I ask what you wish your faith was stronger 'in'.
Cuz it could be so many things that your faith is not strong in. Ya know what I mean?
I think it still is on topic ...you're being very honest which is a big deal.

Everything. One of those things i feel can be stronger. Internally i still resist. A future full of uncertainties. It would be more liberating to just let go of expectations and trust.

Honesty can be a big deal but without a mature attitude it doesn't mean much. Some are quick to berate and belittle another then resort back to the whole "well at least i was honest" nonsense response. Easy to be honest in that way but not so easy to be honest with your intent. I see honesty as a tool to use wisely, mostly out of respect for others or to grow as a person not something to enhance my self image or to personally identify with. Or to use it in a way so i can feel superior to my fellow man.

[A human Being]

Originally Posted by ocean breeze

Honesty can be a big deal but without a mature attitude it doesn't mean much. Some are quick to berate and belittle another then resort back to the whole "well at least i was honest" nonsense response. Easy to be honest in that way but not so easy to be honest with your intent.

This is a great point - it brings to mind a quote by Craig Holliday that I saw a while back: 'Many people get confused about speaking the truth; they think speaking the truth means saying whatever it is you're feeling egoically, and that's not speaking the truth, that's vomiting your ego on the world - that's being a slave to your ego, that's being a victim.'

Where honesty is concerned, for me what is most important is self-honesty, understanding why we think and act as we do, why we feel the way we feel - I would say that for the majority people (and I very much include myself in this), this is the most challenging thing where honesty is concerned. Because we have this tendency to stuff things down that feel distressing or painful, and being honest with ourselves means facing this unresolved material, because it's this that tends to be at the root of why we think, feel, and act the way we do. You really have to want the truth more than you want to feel comfortable, and the majority of people tend to prioritise the latter.

[ocean breeze]

Originally Posted by A human Being

This is a great point - it brings to mind a quote by Craig Holliday that I saw a while back: 'Many people get confused about speaking the truth; they think speaking the truth means saying whatever it is you're feeling egoically, and that's not speaking the truth, that's vomiting your ego on the world - that's being a slave to your ego, that's being a victim.'

Yeah, pretty much. Many of us can admit to a few of our faults but that's the extent of our "honesty," which isn't much.

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by A human Being

This is a great point - it brings to mind a quote by Craig Holliday that I saw a while back: 'Many people get confused about speaking the truth; they think speaking the truth means saying whatever it is you're feeling egoically, and that's not speaking the truth, that's vomiting your ego on the world - that's being a slave to your ego, that's being a victim.'

.

A human being,

Someone else called attention to this and it caught my eye. It is great….thanks for posting. I immediately thought of the forbidden fruit of the “tree of the knowledge of good and evil”. That knowledge gives life to the ego, our sense of separation and acceptance of duality.

I linked this to scripture from 1 Corinthians 8:9-13…..a short version: “Be careful that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak….this weak brother is destroyed by your knowledge….” It is worthwhile to read this passage in its entirety. Specifically it is speaking about eating meat and idols. But if you look at it metaphorically you will arrive at a symbolic understanding. It is how certain knowledge if carelessly deseminated can be dangerous.

Originally Posted by A human Being

'Many people get confused about speaking the truth; they think speaking the truth means saying whatever it is you're feeling egoically, and that's not speaking the truth, that's vomiting your ego on the world - that's being a slave to your ego, that's being a victim.'

I find these kinds of out-porings brilliant because if your Craig Holliday knew so much about the ego, he'd realise that what he's talking about here is not Spirituality but pseudo-psychoanalysis. And this is what's in HIS ego. Unless people have some knowledge of psychology the discussion of the ego is just more ego-vomit, and wearing the label doesn't qualify anyone.

So in all honesty, in the discussion of ego how many people are talking about something that they've made up themselves?

If the discussion is one of Spirituality and not psychology then the subject discussion should be about the Sanskrit Ahamkara, because that is the wisdom of the ancients. Ahamkara is known as the I-Maker or the "I of invented things." Aham means 'I' and a kara is an 'invented thing', something that is created from perceptual reality and has no place in Absolute Reality. Which is what the ego is.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by ocean breeze

Everything. One of those things i feel can be stronger. Internally i still resist.
A future full of uncertainties. It would be more liberating to just let go of expectations and trust. ...

I hear this often - this 'resisting inside'.
My future is uncertain, also.
I would love to tell you how I found peace of mind about it and
some 'calamities' that happen, even.
One word I use is ''Free"--you said 'liberating', I related. I feel CAREFREE! Finally.
What a feeling.
But, if you wanted to know how I did it - I would share in a PM...I do get tired of saying things publicly so much.
And I wouldn't be preachy --I'd just tell you how I handle life now.
You could take it or leave it, ya know. Take care.

[ocean breeze]

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

But, if you wanted to know how I did it - I would share in a PM...I do get tired of saying things publicly so much.

Sure, i'll take it.