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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #31  
Old 23-01-2021, 02:28 AM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Sky,

We have discussed this, I have showed the history of Mahayana. How they and what is now known as Theravada lived together at the time.

What you consider as only the Buddhist teachings (Pali Cannon) was just those teachings that were published first by one tradition.

Later, Mahayana published their teachings, New Buddha's have come on the scene and provided their teachings. Mahasiddha's have provided a lot of Buddhist teachings and insights.

All of it is Buddhist, all of it is considered Buddhism and teachings of the Buddha.

For instance in Theravada you will not find teachings of a Bodhisattva. Why? Because in Theravada it is not possible to reach Buddhahood in this lifetime. In Mahayana you can, so you have stages of the Arhat, Bodhisattva and the various levels as well as the various types of Buddhas.

Now people can disagree with a traditions beliefs and practices but it is wrong to say the largest tradition in Buddhism by far is not really Buddhist or following the teachings of the Buddha.

For instance again.. Zen which you are a fan, came from a Buddha named Bodhidharma. He is considered a Buddha, provided new teachings both in Sutra and in spiritual practices. Are they all fake and wrong, misguided?


Bodhidharma is the First Patriarch of Zen. He didn't provide any new Sutras, but your comments bring to mind the veracity of the Diamond Sutra:

The Buddha said to him, “Subhuti, those who would now set forth on the bodhisattva path should thus give birth tothis thought:

‘However many beings there are in whatever realms of being might exist, whether they are born from an egg or born from a womb, born from the water or born from the air, whether they have form or no form, whether they have perception or no perception or neither perception nor no perception, in whatever conceivable realm of being one might conceive of beings, in the realm of complete nirvana I shall liberate them all.

And though I thus liberate countless beings, not a single being is liberated.

And why not? Subhuti, a bodhisattva who creates the perception of a being cannot be called a ‘bodhisattva. ’ And why not? Subhuti, no one can be called a bodhisattva who creates the perception of a self or who creates the perception of a being, a life, or a soul.”

Diamond Sutra
The Buddha


There is no need to fight over concepts and you do Buddhism a disservice to cling so heavily to the terminology or differentiations, where they are not important to a practicing Buddhist.

As to Bodhidharma, if you are interested in what he really said, then you are free to read his teachings. This goes for everyone - don't listen to forum folks only - do your own research and read from reputable teachers only.

Teachings of Bodhidharma
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  #32  
Old 23-01-2021, 02:39 AM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skull
Returning to the bodhisattva vows text I linked in post #14; here is Master Hua commenting on the title:

Commentary:
An Exhortation to Resolve Upon Bodhi.

This essay is a series of logical reasons
for encouraging us to make a resolve. What
resolve should we make? We should resolve upon Bodhi.
What is the resolve upon Bodhi? It is a resolve to understand. It
is the resolve to turn back from confusion and return to enlightenment,
to give up what is deviant and return to what is proper, to clearly
know right from wrong, to stop being upside-down, and to
be straightforward. There is absolutely nothing devious or crooked
about a straightforward mind. The resolve for Bodhi is a resolve to
benefit people. By benefiting others, you yourself benefit. By
working to lead others to become enlightened, you yourself become
enlightened.

“Bodhi” is a Sanskrit term. It means “to enlighten to the Path.”
You understand the Path, and thus are able to cultivate. You can’t
cultivate if you don’t understand the Path; you will be upside-down
forever. You’ll think what is right is wrong and what is wrong is
right. You’ll think black is white and get everything backwards.
You’ll walk the proper road if you understand the Path. If not,
you’ll walk a deviant path. The important point of resolving on
Bodhi is that you do no evil, but respectfully practice all good.
These are simply the moral precepts. You maintain your resolve for
Bodhi if you follow the rules. You have forgotten your resolve
when you don’t follow the rules.

Thanks .....
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  #33  
Old 24-01-2021, 12:30 AM
janielee
Posts: n/a
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Not to forget that The Buddha never taught any of the above. If your interested you can read what is recognised by Buddhist Scholars to be the earliest Buddha's Teachings.
Buddha did not teach the Bodhisattva path, which emerges only in later documents that started to appear at least a century after His death......

There is no need to become anything, indeed. The Buddhist practices are not designed to form an identity - they are designed to help you let go. In that way, it is important who one listens to.

The Diamond Sutra, which I quoted above for jb, alludes to this same point - or rather, expliclitly calls it out.

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  #34  
Old 24-01-2021, 03:07 AM
BigJohn BigJohn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
There is no need to fight over concepts and you do Buddhism a disservice to cling so heavily to the terminology or differentiations, where they are not important to a practicing Buddhist.

As to Bodhidharma, if you are interested in what he really said, then you are free to read his teachings. This goes for everyone - don't listen to forum folks only - do your own research and read from reputable teachers only.

Truly, "there is no need to fight over concepts" but that is what has been happening. If you look on this Forum, you might be surprised how many times some have put Buddhists 'down' because they belong to a different or slightly different version of Buddhism. For me, I resonate with the various versions of Buddhism in the East but have a hard time grasping how some Western Buddhists view Eastern Buddhists. The rift is similar to how Protestants view Catholics.

An example, is my belief in Maitreya and Quan Yin. In the East, these two are common beliefs but in the West, they are hardly ever spoken and if spoken, sometimes not in a good way.

And then there is the different Buddhist scriptures for the various sects of Buddhism which resonates very much like the different scriptures for the Protestants and Catholics.

For Buddhists and for Christians, the best source of information is their own scriptures.
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     whereas suffering is caused by a distorted mind.

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  #35  
Old 24-01-2021, 06:49 AM
sky123 sky123 is offline
Master
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 11,007
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
There is no need to become anything, indeed. The Buddhist practices are not designed to form an identity - they are designed to help you let go. In that way, it is important who one listens to.

The Diamond Sutra, which I quoted above for jb, alludes to this same point - or rather, expliclitly calls it out.



Thanks JL, as always your knowledge of Buddhism is welcomed.
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  #36  
Old 24-01-2021, 09:20 PM
janielee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
Thanks JL, as always your knowledge of Buddhism is welcomed.

You're very welcome
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  #37  
Old 09-02-2021, 03:29 PM
jonesboy jonesboy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
Bodhidharma is the First Patriarch of Zen. He didn't provide any new Sutras, but your comments bring to mind the veracity of the Diamond Sutra:

The Buddha said to him, “Subhuti, those who would now set forth on the bodhisattva path should thus give birth tothis thought:

‘However many beings there are in whatever realms of being might exist, whether they are born from an egg or born from a womb, born from the water or born from the air, whether they have form or no form, whether they have perception or no perception or neither perception nor no perception, in whatever conceivable realm of being one might conceive of beings, in the realm of complete nirvana I shall liberate them all.

And though I thus liberate countless beings, not a single being is liberated.

And why not? Subhuti, a bodhisattva who creates the perception of a being cannot be called a ‘bodhisattva. ’ And why not? Subhuti, no one can be called a bodhisattva who creates the perception of a self or who creates the perception of a being, a life, or a soul.”

Diamond Sutra
The Buddha


There is no need to fight over concepts and you do Buddhism a disservice to cling so heavily to the terminology or differentiations, where they are not important to a practicing Buddhist.

As to Bodhidharma, if you are interested in what he really said, then you are free to read his teachings. This goes for everyone - don't listen to forum folks only - do your own research and read from reputable teachers only.

Teachings of Bodhidharma

Sutras equal teachings.

I think you will find I have covered a lot of his teachings within this forum.

Search and enjoy

Concepts are those things people have not experienced or realized.

What is considered at first a concept through the practices are then later realized. That is why the Buddha always said to put to test all that he said and the practices he shared.

Billions of people have and found them to be true... i.e.. realized and no longer concepts.. it's how a tradition lasts for centuries. Buddhism is not a belief system like Christianity has become.

As far as the Diamond Sutra. You are confusing advanced teachings and the audience they are meant for compared to someone who has never done any practices. There is a huge difference. Your quote that you are beyond ego... did it help?
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  #38  
Old 09-02-2021, 04:12 PM
Skull Skull is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonesboy
Sutras equal teachings.

I think you will find I have covered a lot of his teachings within this forum.

Search and enjoy

Concepts are those things people have not experienced or realized.

What is considered at first a concept through the practices are then later realized. That is why the Buddha always said to put to test all that he said and the practices he shared.

Billions of people have and found them to be true... i.e.. realized and no longer concepts.. it's how a tradition lasts for centuries. Buddhism is not a belief system like Christianity has become.

As far as the Diamond Sutra. You are confusing advanced teachings and the audience they are meant for compared to someone who has never done any practices. There is a huge difference. Your quote that you are beyond ego... did it help?

Well said!
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