Antisocial people hidding behind their mask of sanity

[smilingsun]

Originally Posted by Randahl

Often the idealizing...discard thing is just that. You idealize someone, then you get to know them and they don't measure up to your ideal, and you discard them. No secret agenda that was in plan from the start. The stories on P-free are all about the victims, and therefore miss the point of the actions by the P: the plan, if there ever was one, was never about the victim, it was about the P. You go to your favorite restaurant and tip the waiter well cause he's giving you a good service, but you're not there because of him, and you will not give him a second thought when you go to another restaurant. That's the mindset.

What about hoovering, manipulation, gaslighting, constant lying, crasy making, bullying, triangulation, smear campaigns... Why do P need to destroy their partners if is it just about getting what they want ?

http://psychopathvictims.com/psychop...mear-campaigns

https://victimsofpsychopaths.wordpre...he-psychopath/


Do you know if it is possible than some coachs/therapists specialized in victims of Personality disordereds are in fact psychopaths themselves ?

[Mused]

They don't ''need to'', arnica. It just happens because disordered personalities have a skewed mindset, and unhealthy coping mechanisms. P's are part of the cluster B pers disorders (these mostly do damage in interpersonal relationships). The smear campaigns are used as revenge (usually), but thats more a BPD/HPD/NPD thing....
It is all about getting what they want, fulfilling some needs, at the expense of whoever - if the person hasn't developed some awareness, and even then, it can happen.
I believe this can be changed...not all these people are ''bad''. But, it takes a true recognition of the traits, as well as a real desire to find better ways.

[Randahl]

@Montana: The first link lost me at "they are devoid of any feelings", which is utter ** and just shows how little insight the author has. Why do you only read the stuff from the victims? It's like only asking patients who have been maltreated what it is like to be a doctor. P is not about feeling *nothing*. But again I'm so fed up with trying to educate people. There is a lot to read out there, and that stuff is written by experts and Ps themselves. You can find a lot by myself on a site called Experience Project, where I use the same name. Although I'm not active there anymore and the site will be shut down very soon.

Then I want you to remember that I'm talking about Ps *without* strong sadistic traits. But still, even I who consider myself to not be particularly sadistic can be cruel for no particular reason. You ask "why do Ps need to to destroy?". And again this is the wrong way to look at things. You will never get closer to the answer by asking from the victims point of view, because they aren't relevant. The question and answer is "why should a P not destroy someone?". If I gain 1¢ and you loose your house, that a deal that is worth it for me. P is about only caring about the winnings but not so much about the losses. I can't stress this enough. When the greatest of loss can be insignificant, the tiniest gain becomes worth obtaining. This is why Ps aren't responding much to punishment and becomes a real pain for parents to try to raise. It's often noted that Ps don't learn from their mistakes, but I would rather say it's because we aren't really bothered by the outcomes of what you subjectively define as mistake.

I wouldn't be surprised if Ps are overrepresented amongst professionals working with victim rehabilitation. Just like peddos are attracted to the church like flies on warm dung. By the way, you can rest assured that you'll find a certain proportion of spiritual leaders to be Ps too.

@Hippiehottie
High five! (You know, as in "5" ;)

[Randahl]

Originally Posted by Mused

They don't ''need to'', arnica.

Exactly. Also, they don't need not to.

[smilingsun]

Originally Posted by Mused

They don't ''need to'', arnica. It just happens because disordered personalities have a skewed mindset, and unhealthy coping mechanisms.

Unhealed wounds are the origins of these disorders, but there is more to it than just a coping mechanism.

[smilingsun]

Originally Posted by Randahl

@Montana: The first link lost me at "they are devoid of any feelings", which is utter ** and just shows how little insight the author has.

Yes of course they aren't devoid of feelings. I never expected to have a discussion of this kind when i first posted this thread. There is still something i want to understand : how P construct their masks, what are they feeling when acting. Is is true that they study human behavior starting at a young age ? Thanks for the input hippe and randahl. Anyway i'm starting to get bored with this discussion, my intention was just to point out a real phenomenon.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by arnicamontana

Can you explain what makes some people attract P ?

It might take a deep look into both the P and the one attracting a P which is what therapy is all about. The basic point is that something within both causes the attraction but there might be other factors so it comes down to examining everyone involved and many folks do not have the patience, skill or desire to look that deeply into them self or anybody else.

I 've read about but i'm not sure i totally agree, i think it's not as simple. P can fool judges, policemen and even psychologists like Picasso who duped Jacques Lacan and made him believe what he wanted. There are many famous P who are praised and highly considered by society. At work there is someone i think has strong P traits and i've noticed he's able to influence others very well and is liked by many who don't have yet understood the game he his playing.

All of that comes under the general heading or label of Denial and Delusion which can only be sorted out through really deep examinations or perhaps some kind of "spiritual awakening" where some folks can see through the games of Ps.
In the end, it only matters how you live your own life and what standards you live by.
Good luck.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by Randahl

Although it's always helpful to know more about yourself, it's not really gonna help you avoid Ps.

Good self esteem and self respect might not help you avoid a P but it sure can help you DEAL with them a lot quicker BEFORE the damage is done.

Maybe it will help you cope with stuff better after the damage is done tho, but none is immune to manipulation, no one.

You are wrong about that! A P cannot fool or take advantage of an aware, alert and SELF RESPECTING individual. Manipulations only happen to needy, low self worth or IGNORANT folks who are in some ways Ps them self.

He'll either fail to catch your attention in the initial state and move on or wait for things to change without you even knowing you were targeted, or you'll be in the ride until it chrashing down.

You are describing unconscious, low self worth, needy VICTIMS there.

You never hear about people who got out of a deep relation with a P before things get bad. Seriously, there's not much you can do really, until things get abusive/toxic.

LOL, there is a lot that a conscious, high self worth, NOT NEEDY person can do before, during and after a run in with a P but that would take a whole book to itemize here. Ps are both easy to spot and even easier to deal with IF you are are awake and CONFIDENT. Unfortunately most folks are not and may even be latent Ps them self.

[Randahl]

Originally Posted by jimrich

Good self esteem and self respect might not help you avoid a P but it sure can help you DEAL with them a lot quicker BEFORE the damage is done.


You are wrong about that! A P cannot fool or take advantage of an aware, alert and SELF RESPECTING individual. Manipulations only happen to needy, low self worth or IGNORANT folks who are in some ways Ps them self.


You are describing unconscious, low self worth, needy VICTIMS there.


LOL, there is a lot that a conscious, high self worth, NOT NEEDY person can do before, during and after a run in with a P but that would take a whole book to itemize here. Ps are both easy to spot and even easier to deal with IF you are are awake and CONFIDENT. Unfortunately most folks are not and may even be latent Ps them self.

Yeah with that kind of confidence it must be walk in the park to spot Ps and "latent Ps" all around you. So unless you are a complete hermit, you know a handful Ps up close. So why don't you tell us about them and how you spotted and dealt with them. I mean, if you could write a whole book on the topic I'm sure you can at least state a few examples of what you can do. No really, I wanna hear. Do you know that quotes from these "how to deal with a psycho" manuals are posted in forums for/by Ps as comedy? Yeah, guys like Thomas Sherridan I must agree that he has a remarkable understanding into the psyche of Ps (to the point I must wonder...), but still, even if the tips are sound and they are still just another pickable lock. Yes you can add resistance, you can make it more difficult, self respect and integrity creates a buffer, but no no one is *immune*. Confidence, self respect, mindfulness, "not needy"ness are not permanent unchangeable states. Over time you can slowly, layer by layer remove a person's confidence and integrity. Unless you never let anyone into your life, you do expose yourself for manipulation.

[jimrich]

Originally Posted by Randahl

Over time you can slowly, layer by layer remove a person's confidence and integrity.

This may be true for YOU, but not for those with real self confidence!