Care

[RedEmbers]

Please and thank you
I notice some of these undercurrents in myself and in others as well.

My sister, the "jester" archetype is extremely good at triggering people's blindspots, she does so, often unintentionally and with humour but for those looking closely, can see her divine jester wisdom... hehe.

I have worked with archetypes of my own and one is the arctype of transformation (think of the phoenix). I have been told my many men and some women that they find me intimidating and that they feel like they cannot keep secrets from me. It's not intentional and it is something which I have had to learn to appreciate and overcome, I can help people through transitions if they need someone to be by there side and I see now that this is the reason why I choose as a young child to sit with my grandmother each day during her last day's on earth.


"The Fool" is another archtype I have been trying to make my peace with, kindness and innocence. The fear surrounding the energy of the fool is that people worry about me and sees me as foolish at times and as a result I have lacked trust in that part of my nature and have felt foolish for wanting to see good in others.

So, kindness for kindness sake for me, no longer needs to be a scary thing because even The Fool needs to learn boundaries and stand up for themselves from time to time.

There is beauty and suffering to integrate in all of these archetypes. The way that I see it

[RedEmbers]

I just rescued two insects...one from a cobweb and I pulled cobwebs out of its wings. It was a tedious challenge but I did it for the fun of it


I was sharing some if my struggles with an energy healer last year about my difficulty recieving care from others, I was lamenting how I was worried about the motives of others caring for me, as in, that they might only be doing it out of a sense of obligation or because they felt they had to haha...

He replied very quickly and with few words, "does it matter"...

To which I sort of thought, well not really, it's not up to me to decide other people's motives if they choose to care for me... I only need to choose if I accept the care or not.

Perhaps I am oversimplifying it all but there are some instances where I do wonder (in my own case) if I simply over analyse other people's motives as well as my own to the point of not acting on anything at all and then not chosing to actively care about nothing much in general Hehe.

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by RedEmbers

Perhaps I am oversimplifying it all but there are some instances where I do wonder (in my own case) if I simply over analyse other people's motives as well as my own to the point of not acting on anything at all and then not chosing to actively care about much in general Hehe.

yeah that was another of those lessons I'm learning... not to try to look below the surface of others, in terms of trying to figure out why they are doing what they do... any more it even seems kind of mean to try to box people in that way just to make myself feel better lol... I still sorta need to know at least some of my own motives though, I've got so many terribly bad habits that I'm not getting out from under them if I'm going to keep insisting on being blind to my own awfulness lol...

as far as caring, sometimes too you've gotta take one for the team if you really want to do the most caring thing you can... it isn't always all sunshine and roses...

[JustBe]

One thjng I’ve learned even if you don’t look beneath the surface of others, that’s really ok, but when your open to yourself more fully, that noticing is less about noticing and more about being you. In the event of overcoming that openness naturally reflects itself, in ways you not engaged in your thinking and analytical mind, but rather open to what is and moving from a more centred grounded being. It’s less about analysing and more about presence. In this way, it’s not what anyone is doing but rather what all are contributing together in the shared space as they are.

I guess you could say it’s the wisdom of one’s own learning..

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

noticing is less about noticing and more about being you.

True, it is what's happening with yourself, in the wider context. That's a theme for me right now.

[JustBe]

@gem

I wrote a big reply to your first post and lost it. I think I said something about that’s why you haven’t been sleeping lol. Social media addict haha


What you shared about duty of care. You know that’s something in the real world we all have to abide by. The problems often arise as personal stuff gets intermixed. People shelve their stuff at times to do what they gave to do, but generally the contents of one’s shelf fall in your lap eventually.

My partner gave up managing age care staff because he spent more time on peoples personal issues than staff and work place issues. You mentioned about complexities and overwhelm, when it all gets entangled. Sadly It’s often the nature of most work places, but more so in care roles, where stress and consistent giving activate imbalances, where staff are not supported or supporting themselves to counteract those affects.

The spirit of generosity, I believe is part of our innate essence. So I suppose the potential is within all life, to care in some form. The varying degrees often correlate to peoples struggles and suffering that cause these entanglements i am mentioning.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by JustBe

@gem

1. that’s why you haven’t been sleeping lol. Social media addict haha
2. duty of care
3.The spirit of generosity,

1. 100% true. I think social media has become my biggest hangup

2. in the big mix, there is a social responsibility because no one can survive without the service of others. Carers, parents and children who care for a parent, partners who are caring for a disabled spouse, and professional carers, cannot operate well without support networks. Without, it can be draining and demand more than you have to give. Then, real burnout is an exhaustion that can be devastating and take years to come back from.

3. My definition of generosity is give without expecting anything in return. If there's an expectation attached, then the motive is a bit off. The self-awareness of this is the most important thing. I actually agree with Redchic, and the whole point of this thread, that motive can be questionable and it often is. That can't be helped individually because it arises in the overall sense according to the underlying conditions.

During my experience at the ashram I had an opportunity to be outlandishly generous, and every bit of work was for the benefit of others. That works when it is mutual, and the energy of that motive is tireless. I would never accept gratitude because people are not actually giving thanks without expecting recognition for it either. They used to want me to come out from my service at the end of retreats so the meditators could thank me. I'd say no, I don't want their thanks. 'But they really want to show their gratitude etc.' I'd say, that is theirs and I don't want it.

My idea is more like mutual appreciation. I appreciate the hard yards they did in their retreat because I went through the same thing - but that's not something I'd thank them for. Appreciation is not thanks. Thanks is I got something from you. Thanks isn't innocent. They expect me to want it and they want to be acknowledged for giving it to me.

My teacher told me that he never thanks anyone or accepts gratitude, and in that moment it clicked and I could see exactly why. People would thank him and he'd say, don't thank me when dhamma (nature) did it.

That level of giving isn't really possible in the world 'outside' because the underlying conditions don't enable it. People won't understand that until they give service in a spiritual context (and have that contrast) - kinda like Mother Theresa did within the protective structure of her church. Within such structure we have the 'sangha' support, the right protections and boundaries, the metta meditations and all else that goes into creating of the right conditions, but it's actually a very hard space to exist in because there's no distractions from yourself. Most people couldn't bear it - so we are in that big mix like you are saying with the self seen (or not seen) in the whole overall dynamic.

[Starman]

We give to each other the work or lack of work that we have done on ourselves; if my level of sensitivity is coarse that is what I will give to you under the pretense of caring. Caring comes natural to some and is a struggle for others.

People often impose their values on others as a form of caring for that person. They do not include the person in the discussion regarding what they would like to offer. They just impose what they think is best.

There is a difference between empathy and sympathy and I view empathy as more of a genuine caring. But do you ever give up and not care? When and how do you draw the line to not care? If a person rejects what you are offering do you still offer caring options.

A child who grows up in a dysfunctional family where no one cared about them, may have no reference for caring about others. I have these people calling me “sir” and I tell them you don’t have to call me sir, to which most reply “that’s the way I was raised.” Not everyone comes out of a caring loving family.

[JustBe]

@gem

I hear you.

The environment plays a big role in how we are as humans and how we respond, to the outer world, so this one issue of care is affected under that umbrella for sure. I’m a big believer in modelling rather than telling or projecting. ( but that’s only because I had to learn and heal what I carried in me around these issues amongst others). I can offer insight or share a little wisdom through my own being, but this kind of care finds itself, it’s not forced or necessary in me. It’s just a natural movement of the shared space. I suppose too, I’ve learned the more you integrate your being, the more naturally your (natural processors and innate essence) expresses through itself in this way of being. I’m predominately intuitive so for me my intuition in shared connections can lead more clear, without even realizing it is. This is good though, because it’s being utilised through an integrated state of being, which all pertains and takes you back to openness. Just clear in you, integrated together as a whole.

I like how you see care. That no expectation of any return is a good teacher in and if itself as that.

I think in the spirit of giving or generosity in care, many of our underlying behaviours are not even noticed. In the moment that’s all good when the crew or One who has received and they feel filled, but if you’ve set yourself up (aware or not) without noticing your intent or not listening to yourself in this way, you can build up all kinds of nasty fallouts.

Resentment is a major one.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Starman

We give to each other the work or lack of work that we have done on ourselves; if my level of sensitivity is coarse that is what I will give to you under the pretense of caring. Caring comes natural to some and is a struggle for others.

People often impose their values on others as a form of caring for that person. They do not include the person in the discussion regarding what they would like to offer. They just impose what they think is best.

There is a difference between empathy and sympathy and I view empathy as more of a genuine caring. But do you ever give up and not care? When and how do you draw the line to not care? If a person rejects what you are offering do you still offer caring options.

A child who grows up in a dysfunctional family where no one cared about them, may have no reference for caring about others. I have these people calling me “sir” and I tell them you don’t have to call me sir, to which most reply “that’s the way I was raised.” Not everyone comes out of a caring loving family.

Hello star man.
Definitely if your open clear and aware of yourself, light and full of energy you can feel how giving outwardly is done with an ease, effortless and your own energy doesn’t wane. You don’t feel drained, or overwhelmed.

These differences for an empathic person regardless of who and what they give, are definitive signals, of what you as the out ward reaching person can recognise, as a need to fill that space in you.

I know a lot of naturally giving sensitives/empaths are moved very differently by social interactions, so the need level, is much higher to fill that tank for self.

I think my best learning before becoming more grounded and integrated aware, was developing discernment. Again I’m predominately intuitive so when I’m clear, it’s clear, it flows and knows naturally how to move and be in life. To build that flow and movement, you do have to be willing to open fully.

Then of course discernment leads through the clarity of your open state.

I recal one time a meeting point in my process. My care of the old conditioned state came full circle. I can remember I just stopped and something in me had ended. I asked those same questions your asking. Then I had to slowly redirect myself anew. In the process I had all the tools of trust, discernment, open state. The deeper lessons of compassion, mindfulness and loving kindness moved me differently. I was no longer attached so everything in me had to learn through these levels of deeper awareness.

My care didn’t disappear, my empathic self remained, but I was no longer primed by underlying conditions as myself. Through integration anew, nothings forced and because you’ve built an inclusiveness as yourself, it naturally leads as you are. As you’ve become.

The open state really is about opening up to you fully. It’s not about others. It leads as it is and can be.