Is it ever too early to ask yourself this question?

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

...
Here’s another good one I use often:

It isnt the person/situation that offends you
It’s YOUR thoughts about them that offends you.

Love it!

That sounds interesting, but it depends what you do with it. It is one of those sayings that sound wise, but which actually put you down, and don't offer a working solution. Other saying says: love yourself as you are ... There are contradictory sayings for everything. :)

There are persons and situations that offend you, and not because you aren't reasonable.

I think it is more useful to focus on how you react, what you want, which of your beliefs brought you there, than dispensing blame, be it on others or on yourself.

At least this is how I think in such situations.

[Redchic12]

I think I have to disagree with you Invalan but you have made some very good points tho.

You state that it doesn’t offer a working solution. Well maybe to some people it doesn’t but to me personally it certainly does. Maybe if you give me an example I can get a better understanding of where you are coming from.

I know this will seem like “way out there” but I feel that all we are doing is moving such as eating, walking, driving, painting, writing etc. just moving energy around from one thing/place to another. But we put a label on those things which is A THOUGHT.

So in reality if we didn’t have a thought about the action or label and just look at it as energy moving, then surely there will be NO offence. Taking offence is a thought is it not.

You talk about being reasonable. But isn’t reasonable a thought again. What the person has done isn’t reasonable or unreasonable it’s just energy that has moved and we have a thought about it and then that thought tells us it is unreasonable.

Yes I agree with focusing on how you react. Focusing on the above actually helps me with that reaction.

No thoughts no problems. That is my view. Yep easy said than done.

But hey don’t think I can easily and regularly do this. It is something that I have worked on for years because I find it very helpful. I’m not saying it is the right way or the only way, but it kinda makes sense to me.

Hope this gives you some understanding of where I am coming from.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

... No thoughts no problems. That is my view. Yep easy said than done. ...

I disagree with the philosophies and religions that advise "no-thoughts". I agree that some people defectively use their "thinking", but the solution isn't to not-think, but to correct their use of that feature.

Not-thinking leads to mental stagnation, that is detrimental to the personality gestalt, because it tries to block its creativity. Inherently, at physical level, creativity always breaks through and manifests in an aberrant way at cell, tissue, or organ level causing overgrowth, which depending where it brakes through materializes as cancers, obesity, or excessive sensory-motor activities.

Stopping defective-thinking is imperative. Mastering emotions, limiting intellectual reasoning to its function as a tool, carefully developing intuition (to access inner-senses) are ways that I believe we should follow, but not the blanking of our minds for more than a few moments of crisis.

"That is my view".

I would even say: No thoughts, bigger problems.

[Redchic12]

Invalan your comments:
“I disagree with the philosophies and religions that advise "no-thoughts".

Firstly, I don’t associate with any man made religion and the “no thoughts no problem” didn’t come to me thru any religion or anything I read. It just came to me thru contemplation.

Your second paragraph I would completely agree with you.

However I dont think I have made myself completely understood so I will try to do so now.

Let’s say, for example I have a problem with someone at the workplace who has started to falsely accuse me of things that I haven’t done and started putting me down in front of others. Well I wouldn’t be saying to myself no thoughts no problem. That wouldn’t solve anything would it. We all have to work together so the problem has to be fixed.

Firstly I would give quite a lot of thought to this problem as it needs to be solved for everyone’s sake. Ide look at where I was going wrong and what I could have done differently. Then I would talk it thru with a trusted friend in order to get another persons point of view. Then finally I would make a decision on how I am going to deal with it. And lastly I would give much thought to how I could prevent this from happening again, that is maybe making some changes in my own behaviour.

This could take anything from a few days to maybe a week or so before I put my plan into action and when it is done there will either be an improvement in the situation or it will stay the same.

So my point is that it isn’t a case of never thinking, it’s a case of when the situation is dealt with, you don’t start regurgitating the problem over and over for weeks or months afterwards.

My belief is this: problem dealt with. If problem comes up again, I say NO THOUGHTS NO PROBLEMS and move on. End of story.

You also mention ……….”but not the blanking of the mind in crisis”

Well funny enough it seems that is exactly what a lot of people do in a traumatic situation such as sexual abuse, torture etc. I believe it’s a protection mechanism in the brain. So perhaps it is useful at times.

Even though I’ve given you some idea of where I am coming from personally I still do feel that nothing is happening to us except in the mind. The story above shows that ALL of it is still just words/thoughts. What she said (was her thoughts) and how I interpreted them (my thoughts). If there were no thoughts there would be no problem happening.

[AnotherBob]

Whatever is remembered is not true. This also applies to all thoughts, emotions, sensations. The same attention which wanders through the funhouse of thoughts, emotions, sensations, and memories can instead be returned to its source, and remain there, still and alert, until what's true reveals itself. This is the testimony of the sages.

__/\__

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by inavalan

Not-thinking leads to mental stagnation, that is detrimental to the personality gestalt, because it tries to block its creativity. ... I would even say: No thoughts, bigger problems.

I would suggest the opposite. Not-thinking leads to mental clarity and improved functioning.

Why might this be so?

Because the absence of thought means that we are not distracted by mental chatter, we are not held back by our personal fears. We are fully present and thus better able to respond to the needs of the moment. Consciousness has its own intelligence and does not require that thoughts are present to guide our actions.

H.W.L. Poonja describes living in state of no-thought for some months after meeting Ramana Maharshi. During this time he went to work as normal and engaged in everyday family life, but thoughts were absent. He described it as a Higher Intelligence seeming to take him over, allowing him to function far more effectively in the world.

Of course, living thus without thoughts is easier said than done.

Peace

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by Redchic12

Invalan your comments: ...
You also mention ……….”but not the blanking of the mind in crisis”
...

Firstly, my formulation was: "but not the blanking of our minds for more than a few moments of crisis."

It has a different meaning.


I was surprised by your final paragraph "I still do feel that nothing is happening to us except in the mind. The story above shows that ALL of it is still just words/thoughts. What she said (was her thoughts) and how I interpreted them (my thoughts). If there were no thoughts there would be no problem happening."

We understand the "mind over matter" differently.

To me, physical-reality experience is a reflection of my psyche's state. Physical experience mirrors that.

If I want to solve a problem that I experience in the physical-reality, I have to solve it in my psyche. It isn't about thinking how to fix a physical-problem, about ignoring it, or such. There is no problem that is decided externally to me; it only seems so because of our cultural conditioning. It is like when you experience a dream and have no clue that you are dreaming.

No thoughts, you don't solve anything.

Thoughts aren't the so called mind-chatter. That condition is a defective mind functioning. It is like saying that if you have a buggy software, you'd solve the problem you needed to, by shutting down your computer. No! You fix the software, and then you use the computer. You get rid of chatter, and you properly use your mind, your intellect and intuition.

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by iamthat

...

Peace

Peace to you too :)

[inavalan]

Originally Posted by AnotherBob

... This is the testimony of the sages.

__/\__

I trust no sages ... :)

How would I know who's sage, and who's deluded? If I truly knew that, then I wouldn't need to know what sages say, would I?

[Redchic12]

Thank you Iamthat and Bob. Really appreciate your comments. It was good to hear someone else’s take on this.

Invalan:

I think we should just agree to disagree.

It’s all good.