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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Spirituality & Beliefs > Past Lives & Reincarnation

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  #11  
Old 06-08-2020, 02:21 PM
Gabryel Gabryel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartholomew
...Christians maintain that reincarnation is false doctrine. They are correct because they are thinking in terms of personalities returning intact in a new body. Personalities do not reincarnate! Meanwhile reincarnationists will say that we live thousands of lifetimes. They are also correct because the soul uses a new personality each time.

Thank you, Bartholemew, for explaining this. It wasn't MY original question, but your answer has helped me resolve in my own mind, something which I was also wondering about.
__________________
======================

Why do we reincarnate?
Just for the sake of it, nothing else.
Because we love being alive!

======================

A lot of interesting stuff to read at https://rememberinglifeanddeath.weebly.com/
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  #12  
Old 06-08-2020, 04:55 PM
bartholomew
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You're welcome. It helps me too. My present personality has certain flaws that I wish were not there. At this thought my wife who is on the other side now is laughing in agreement.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Gabryel
Thank you, Bartholemew, for explaining this. It wasn't MY original question, but your answer has helped me resolve in my own mind, something which I was also wondering about.
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  #13  
Old 06-08-2020, 07:15 PM
janielee
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Dish the dirt on your flaws, James :lol:
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  #14  
Old 06-08-2020, 08:01 PM
bartholomew
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No way!!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
Dish the dirt on your flaws, James :lol:
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  #15  
Old 10-08-2020, 08:43 PM
janielee
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LOL come on a little modesty never hurt a reasonable fellow ;)
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  #16  
Old 10-08-2020, 08:48 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ann299
I know that there is a lot of evidence for reincarnation but I am struggling with this and I would like some of you to explain a concept to me. If we have soulmates, loved one, family etc... whom have already crossed over and we are looking forward to seeing them on the other side when we die and they have already reincarnated when we die, how will we see them?
How is this supposed to work?

Such a great question!

I don't have much teeth into reincarnation as I have no past lives. I suppose if 'God' is grand than 'he' can conjure up an image of a loved one while they're already incarnated some place else? I have wondered about that possibility and it's kinda disturbing because it would be an illusion. Another possibility is; there is no reincarnation and we see all of them again in the afterlife as they are (or wish to be remembered?).

I read Bartholomew mentioning that personalities don't reincarnate...
This is a bit of a kick up the @rse on ''karma'', as without a conscious agent incarnating there is no responsibility left for what we did in a past life. how can a totally new person bear responsibility for a person long gone? You'd get a true clean slate every time if you were to reincarnate. I think that's an interesting view!
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  #17  
Old 10-08-2020, 09:11 PM
iamthat iamthat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
I don't have much teeth into reincarnation as I have no past lives. I suppose if 'God' is grand than 'he' can conjure up an image of a loved one while they're already incarnated some place else? I have wondered about that possibility and it's kinda disturbing because it would be an illusion. Another possibility is; there is no reincarnation and we see all of them again in the afterlife as they are (or wish to be remembered?).

I read Bartholomew mentioning that personalities don't reincarnate...
This is a bit of a kick up the @rse on ''karma'', as without a conscious agent incarnating there is no responsibility left for what we did in a past life. how can a totally new person bear responsibility for a person long gone? You'd get a true clean slate every time if you were to reincarnate. I think that's an interesting view!

You have misunderstood what Bartholomew is saying.

Personalities do not reincarnate! Meanwhile reincarnationists will say that we live thousands of lifetimes. They are also correct because the soul uses a new personality each time.

Altair the personality has no past lives, but the consciousness expressing itself through Altair in this life may well have expressed itself through many other previous personalities. And of course, Altair has no conscious memory of this because Altair (the personality) did not exist before this birth.

In other words there is a conscious agent which incarnates bearing responsibility for events in previous past lives. So this is not a kick up the backside for karma. If reincarnation and karma are real then they affect us whether we believe in them or not.

Peace
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  #18  
Old 10-08-2020, 09:16 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
Altair the personality has no past lives, but the consciousness expressing itself through Altair in this life may well have expressed itself through many other previous personalities. And of course, Altair has no conscious memory of this because Altair (the personality) did not exist before this birth.

This ''works'' if one believes in multiple personalities, with a ''hidden'' one behind the scenes that pulls the play and puts something (what is it?) to Earth at the moment of conception (or later on?). It's a bit odd. It makes ''sense'' if you accept there is someone else pulling the strings and that you have multiple identities or 'beings' in you. But it's not logical for there to be responsibility for any *past life* if there was a different personality. How would it work you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
In other words there is a conscious agent which incarnates bearing responsibility for events in previous past lives.
That which is conscious has no past lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthat
So this is not a kick up the backside for karma. If reincarnation and karma are real then they affect us whether we believe in them or not.
Peace
Does not apply to me, as they're not my beliefs..
It's like saying ''Allah is real and the Muslims are 100% correct whether you believe in it or not.''
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  #19  
Old 10-08-2020, 09:29 PM
bartholomew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Such a great question!

I don't have much teeth into reincarnation as I have no past lives. I suppose if 'God' is grand than 'he' can conjure up an image of a loved one while they're already incarnated some place else? I have wondered about that possibility and it's kinda disturbing because it would be an illusion. Another possibility is; there is no reincarnation and we see all of them again in the afterlife as they are (or wish to be remembered?).

I read Bartholomew mentioning that personalities don't reincarnate...
This is a bit of a kick up the @rse on ''karma'', as without a conscious agent incarnating there is no responsibility left for what we did in a past life. how can a totally new person bear responsibility for a person long gone? You'd get a true clean slate every time if you were to reincarnate. I think that's an interesting view!
Consider the soul. Karma? Yes. Positive or negative karma. After a lifetime the soul reviews (judges) and accepts the results. The soul bears the responsibility. The burdens and rewards are now matters for the soul to resolve. The future personality being used by the soul is the agent of adjustment. Is this unfair? No. What, at first, may seem an unfair punishment is really an opportunity. This process is a very important part of the mechanics of becoming a master. The advanced soul has greater influence, is closer to, the personality and so these kinds of things are understood. Most of us though have no such advantage so what do we do or how do we react? These dilemmas are the reasons that the wise ones who minister to our world have given us religions. These offer a means of coping with the seeming cruelty we sometimes face. When we hear of the wisdom of God we are being led to the truth of the process of the soul life (through a metaphor). There is another aspect to consider. The acquisition of wisdom. With the help of spiritual beliefs and help from others we manage to overcome. The wisdom gained serves the advancement of the soul. Now we have accrued a little positive karma which may reappear later as a bonus, good luck item, for some personality in the future. We come and we go. Life is life. Shift our gaze upward though and find the truer life. The stabilizing effect of the soul helps us to make sense of our lives.

The above is not an easy pill to swallow for those who are buried in suffering. And they would not be well served by such revelations. Those who guide humanity on this world are compassionate though. One does not get to be a master (or above) soul without first having lived their own long cycles of suffering and joy on some world or other. They know from first hand experience about the complexities of life. They provide solace through the opportunities promised by a benevolent God (who will make all things right) The soul we know as Jesus began at the beginning just like the rest of us. He suffered and experienced joy in thousands of lifetimes right here on Earth long before he ascended to the position he finds himself in today. This is the reason He rightfully calls us all "brothers and sisters".

The Buddha has taught us that, although the world is filled with suffering, there is no sufferer. How can this be? It can be when the aspirants (you and I, all of us) have achieved selflessness.

If only bad people were made to suffer while good people reaped rewards then, immediately, everyone would start to be good. And the world of men, though happy and productive, would have no meaning. It would be empty of wisdom. In such surrounds who can grow and achieve? Would such a world produce future Masters of Wisdom?

Bartholomew


Last edited by bartholomew : 10-08-2020 at 10:21 PM.
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  #20  
Old 10-08-2020, 09:58 PM
janielee
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Beautiful post, Bartholomew

(applause FWIW) :-D
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