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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Lifestyle > Vegetarian & Vegan

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  #21  
Old 20-06-2020, 05:26 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hallow
....... Protein builds muscle and feeds the brain. When past humans ate more protein they become stronger and smarter than there mostly vegetarian counterparts. .........


Your brain runs on glucose.

'...In a new study published in The Quarterly Review of Biology, scientists argue that carbohydrate consumption - particularly starch - has been instrumental in the evolution and expansion of the human brain over the past million years.

According to Harvard's School Of Public Health, the healthiest sources of carbohydrates are unprocessed or minimally processed whole grains, vegetables, fruits and beans.....
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...a&guccounter=1. (links to the study is in the post)

Or....

'....Neurons, which use twice the energy as any other cell type in the body, run almost exclusively on glucose. They don't run on protein and fat.* Moreover, because neurons aren't able to store glucose as glycogen as other cells in the body do, they must receive glucose in constant supply...That's glucose in amounts that could not possibly be supplied by any abundance of meat eating....

.....Peter Ungar, distinguished professor and chair of anthropology at University of Arkansas, who was recently named a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, what his take was on the role of meat eating versus carbs in human brain evolution. He wrote back, "Even the staunchest meat advocates recognize that protein and fat cannot power the brain – and we lose much of our gluconeogenesis capabilities at weaning. The argument is that meat eating provided the calories needed to power other parts of the body, freeing available carbohydrates to focus on the brain… Even in that case, it’s carbs, not meat that powers the brain......'
http://evolvinghealthscience.blogspo...at-eating.html
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We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form.
William Ralph Inge (1860-1954)
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  #22  
Old 20-06-2020, 06:35 PM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
I thought we were talking about our own species..


That is N=1.



You create a dichotomy between veganism on the one hand and a ''standard Western style'' on the other.
This ''standard Western style'' diet doesn't even exist, it's a fantasy of researchers that haven't a clue. What is ''West'' to begin with? They can't even define. If I go to Sweden I'll see different food in restaurants and take-aways than if I go to the US or to Japan, Chile, or Spain. There is no singular ''Western style diet''. It is fabrication and used to create a false narrative and offer veganism as a solution. Any researcher claiming to know what a ''standard Western diet'' is has an agenda.



I don't believe any of that. Some of those issues are related more to junkfood than to animal food. Some of the healthiest populations include fish, dairy and meat as part of the diet. No examples of vegan populations, only a few individuals and most go back to vegetarianism or meat eating.

I was pointing out how an early humanoid species lived without eating meat. That's all. Not saying they are 'us', just that close as they were to our own species, they, like gorilla's, didn't eat meat.

Of course there's a dichotomy between a vegan and the standard Western diet (which includes meat and animal products). They are mutually exclusive. As far as being a 'myth', not so quick.....'The Western pattern diet (WPD) or standard American diet (SAD) is a modern dietary pattern that is generally characterized by high intakes of red meat, processed meat, pre-packaged foods, butter, candy and sweets, fried foods, conventionally-raised animal products, high-fat dairy products, eggs, refined grains, ...' Sound familiar? And while specific dishes in various countries might be slightly different (use of seasonings, ways of combining flavours, etc.), they revolve around the same things in a Standard Western Diet. Meat, butter, eggs, milk plus the other stuff. And while YOU might chose to not believe in it for the sake of this discussion, doesn't mean that it isn't a true pattern. And that phrase wasn't coined by vegans. It was observed by researchers around the world.

And MOST don't go back to eating meat when they've left it behind although some do. But then I tried to quit smoking at least a dozen times before I was done with it for good too. So there's still hope that those FEW who revert, will decide to give it another go. Maybe it'll be a heart attack or a diagnoses of diabetes (like happened with one of my husbands friends) that will encourage them to try again.

While I've got you here, I'm just curious, are you a science denier? Because if you are, then there's no point in me responding to much if any of your comments because I rely on reading the science opinions when I discuss anything to do with health or climate or nature. So I'm just trying to ascertain whether or not I'm just wasting my time. Anyway, have a good day.
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We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form.
William Ralph Inge (1860-1954)
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  #23  
Old 20-06-2020, 07:03 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Neither gorillas nor early hominids are homo sapiens so they are irrelevant.

You and those 'researchers' with an agenda are using a poorly defined diet and add in sugar and junkfood to the mix and compare it to a vegan diet, where quite likely the sugar and junkfood are not controlled for. It is exceedingly hard to control for all variables which makes these kind of studies often problematic. If they are conducted by vegans than excuse me for additional skepticism. One has to exclude all other lifestyle choices and other environmental differences as well as genetics to make sure diet is key, not to mention the sheer amount of control required to make sure people stick to a diet over a period of xx years.

You're the one thinking children are psychologically brainwashed to eat animal food, and you're the one believing that human are herbivores, neither supported by science. If one relies on bogus studies and vegan 'doctors' then one isn't relying on science.
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  #24  
Old 27-08-2020, 03:00 AM
Debrah Debrah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Neither gorillas nor early hominids are homo sapiens so they are irrelevant.

You and those 'researchers' with an agenda are using a poorly defined diet and add in sugar and junkfood to the mix and compare it to a vegan diet, where quite likely the sugar and junkfood are not controlled for. It is exceedingly hard to control for all variables which makes these kind of studies often problematic. If they are conducted by vegans than excuse me for additional skepticism. One has to exclude all other lifestyle choices and other environmental differences as well as genetics to make sure diet is key, not to mention the sheer amount of control required to make sure people stick to a diet over a period of xx years.

You're the one thinking children are psychologically brainwashed to eat animal food, and you're the one believing that human are herbivores, neither supported by science. If one relies on bogus studies and vegan 'doctors' then one isn't relying on science.

I rarely if ever reference 'vegan researchers' when I'm discussing with people like you. It only gives you an out. But I do make use of standard research by plain old doctors who more than likely, eat the same kinds of things you do. Studies that are published on PubMed for example which happens to be one of my favourite resources. Just to clarify, I looked up info on PubMed and this is how it's described:

**********

PubMed is a free search engine accessing primarily the MEDLINE database of references and abstracts on life sciences and biomedical topics. The United States National Library of Medicine (NLM) at the National Institutes of Health maintain the database as part of the Entrez system of information retrieval.[1]
From 1971 to 1997, online access to the MEDLINE database had been primarily through institutional facilities, such as university libraries. PubMed, first released in January 1996, ushered in the era of private, free, home- and office-based MEDLINE searching.[2] The PubMed system was offered free to the public starting in June 1997.[3]
**********

I also look to what anthropologists discover as they look at fossil records as well as the physiology of their finds for clues to what that 'new' species might have eaten. You are the one who's arguing against experts, not me. It's the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and yelling 'lalalalalal.....' so you don't have to listen. So be it, no point in continuing this discussion is there?
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We have enslaved the rest of the animal creation, and have treated our distant cousins in fur and feathers so badly that beyond doubt, if they were able to formulate a religion, they would depict the Devil in human form.
William Ralph Inge (1860-1954)
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  #25  
Old 27-08-2020, 07:05 AM
Altair Altair is offline
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Humans being herbivores is on the same page as Earth being flat. Humans evolved as meat eaters, have a hunter instinct, and can extract the nutrients they need from animal food. Better so than plants. Yes, you can ''combine'' plants, but you need the help of many different farmers to get there. Once again, if we're herbivores than be one in the wilds, try the experiment for a year. Right now people are sustained on what farmers produce and supplements. Can't do that when we live like our ancestors, just saying...
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  #26  
Old 27-08-2020, 10:36 PM
ant
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I gave up eating red meat 6 weeks ago,as for some reason,red meat wasn't cutting the mustard anymore.

Reverted to incorporating small amounts of fish and chicken in my diet,but plan to eradicate meat entirely later down the track,once i have more of a vegie patch established.

Coming off red meat,i had withdrawal symptoms and i had like this dense fog and heaviness on the frontal lobe.

I would liken it,to how someone would feel with depression.

Fast forward,i have so much clarity now,it's like a bandaid has been pulled off and feel so much lighter and brighter in outlook.

And being self diagnosed ADHD in the last few years,i have alot more focus too.

I have also incorporated whole grain bread back into my diet,as of a few weeks ago and whole grain rice and pasta a few days ago.

Feel more on the ball,stomach feels great and sleeping better too.


Highly recommend anyone going down this path to a more plant based diet.



Great informative posts Debrah too,thanks for sharing.



“I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only make them think”

― Socrates
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  #27  
Old 28-08-2020, 07:57 AM
Altair Altair is offline
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That's interesting, Ant. I think those feelings have a lot to do with taking up a new diet by itself. It could be related to stress and one's beliefs. The first weeks or even months one can feel energized. People have said the same thing when they go keto, go back to meat, go vegan, or do a water fast. They all describe similar feelings yet we're talking about totally different diets and abstinences. My digestion, sleeping, strength performance, and mental faculties have been much better when eating MORE animal food. Considering the latter, knowing that cholesterol, and a number of vitamins, are common in animal food, it didn't really surprise me that it had this effect on me. Strength training likewise.

Good luck with the veggie patch, just know it isn't a replacement for animal products. When I grew up we grew loads of vegetables, had fruit trees and bushes, had chickens. The veg and fruit wasn't going to get us everything though.

Animals and plants are very different food sources, even if products contain similar nutrients. That's what is really missing in all the ''go veg or not'' discussions online and in marketing.
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  #28  
Old 28-08-2020, 10:30 PM
ant
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Hi Altair,

I went vegan 12yrs ago for a year and at the time,i was in a highly stressed state that lasted for some 6yrs.

So being stressed at the time,whatever i ate and or consumed,was not going to help.

Despite from the lack of trying to alleviate stress from change in diet,which is why i went vegan at the time.


Last few years i've intermittedly fast on a daily basis,along with being on the keto diet.

I had lots of energy,but it was not consistent and i would dip and have lows and also lacked the mental clarity that i'm getting now.

Red meat,just feels dense and heavy to digest.


I find myself alot more vibrant eating mostly raw greens etc now,along with wholegrains and some fish and chicken.

As well as sleeping better,i'm also needing very little sleep.

Energy is consistent and have doubled in the last week,taking my dog for a walk/run,from 1hr to 2hrs.


I also have this itch to take up running on my 'own',and this is going to go along way to healing from ptsd,by getting out there running and on my own and not feel like a target and or like a rabbit that is getting hunted and or about to be snared in a trap.

Looking forward to getting out of that zone and making some gradual steps forward to lose that unconscious fear.

Also plan to do some weight training for upper strength,along with yoga.

Martial arts has crossed my mind,but perhaps later down the track.


Anyhow,i won't say i'll give up meat entirely at this stage,but red meat is out.

Fish and chicken seems alot kinder and less dense on my digestive system.

And changing to this diet,seems to be working for 'me'.


Where all different and not one shoe fits all.

It pays to be a guinea pig and see what shoe fits.


Each to there own and what suits them best.

Horses for courses.
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  #29  
Old 28-08-2020, 10:56 PM
Altair Altair is offline
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Thanks for sharing.

I do yoga asanas. It's very good for the spine. Could in theory prevent people from ever needing to visit a physiotherapist.
I do strength training, and I have noticed a difference when eating a meal with/without animal food before and after exercising. I've also noticed huge differences in mood and digestion when comparing things, but I could start a whole, new thread about that and all the experiments I have done.

I've tried keto twice, both times for losing weight to reduce waist circumference. I don't care about rice and potatoes, nor bananas, but it's hard without bread the first few days. Keto works to lose weight but I'm not sure it works well in the long run.
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  #30  
Old 06-09-2020, 04:47 PM
janielee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Altair
Humans being herbivores is on the same page as Earth being flat. Humans evolved as meat eaters, have a hunter instinct, and can extract the nutrients they need from animal food.

Things have evolved now to no longer use antiquated thinking as the framework of life, Altair, or didn't you get the memo? We're not in 1684 anymore. A plant based lifestyle is both healthy, good for the environment and represents a more conscious and compassionate way of life. It's a pity when people disparage it. Medical professionals are not in agreement that people need to eat meat.

JL
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