God in Buddhism

Originally Posted by sky123

....


' People believe that God is an embodiment of love and compassion, yet that belief does not stop them from their hatred and cruelty. It was clear then, and it is clear in today's times, that a mere belief in God does not automatically make us good, and that a lack of such beliefs do not make us bad. Mere belief does not take away doubts, fear, or destructive and negative behaviour.
'

Yes, merely believing in God does not predict good or bad behavior. Yet, if we know what one believes about God, that does often have some predictive power, of how they may behave, or at least how they may believe one should behave. But of course what people believe about God varies tremendously, even from pew to pew in the same church, and has a great deal to do with how they see themselves, others, and the world. I expect that is at least part of the reason why in the U.S. these days, we can have red pews and blue pews right next to each other in the same church. Reaching to shake hands with each other at the appointed time during mass, and secretly wondering how those sinners can justify their presence there, and whether the church should be denying them communion.

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[HITESH SHAH]

Originally Posted by Gem

Some people seem to find it useful and some find it important, and other people do not, but in either case, such individuals can equally engage in dhamma and neither are advantaged or disadvantaged by their respective views.



Yes, well said. Dhamma concerns the actuality of nature, with respect to the reality of individuals' condition.




It is not like Buddha is some sort of special person. Indeed, a very wise, insightful, intelligent and articulate individual with relevant teachings on dhamma, but it's a mistake to revere and swallow the teachings whole in blind faith. It is more like saying, Well, this one is enlightened; a wise and intelligent man, so I'll give these teachings the benefit of the doubt, and look into it so I can find out for myself if they true or untrue.




Yes, people who talk about God are not necessarily truthful, and in spiritual circles there is a great deal of pretentious posturing. In Buddhist practice we are alone with the truth, having nowhere to turn, and only then do we really begin to pay attention and really discern.





People want to believe in God and think it is important, no difference to some atheist with the counter view, but right thought and action equally applies, and because it is universally applicable to every human being without exception, it can classified as dhamma.

I see more commonality & agreement than the differences / preferences in our approaches. Very much appreciate the detailed and elaborate feedback with minute details . Thanks for the same.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

I see more commonality & agreement than the differences / preferences in our approaches. Very much appreciate the detailed and elaborate feedback with minute details . Thanks for the same.

I am fully in agreement with your comment.

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by ketzer

and secretly wondering how those sinners can justify their presence there, and whether the church should be denying them communion.

All are sinners according to the Catholic faith. Not one person is without sin.

Luke 5:21-22 - Contemporary English Version
Jesus answered, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I didn't come to invite good people to turn to God. I came to invite sinners."

Logically, if one was not a sinner or "good people", they have no use for a Religion. Like how if one was enlightened and knew their true nature, what use would Buddhism be for them or meditation or anything else?

If one has it in their hand, there is no need to look for it elsewhere or go somewhere else for it.

The above Jesus quote may be confusing to some, but remember Jesus did not start a religion or a church. So the idea that some were good and not sinners and had no need for his teachings was fine with him.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by Gem

Erm... I can't say I liked the video, but my preferences are not relevant. If someone likes it or does not like it makes no difference. Preferences are individual, beliefs are individual, religious background or atheism is individual; but dhamma is universal and applies the same to everyone.

How do you define that ''dhamma'', Gem? Unless you're a secular Buddhist focussing purely on a simple practice of stress relief you would have a hard time to argue for it being universal or applicable to everyone. If not, then you have to accept a lot of superstition, as neurologist Sam Harris, as well as I, have noticed.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

All are sinners according to the Catholic faith. Not one person is without sin.

Luke 5:21-22 - Contemporary English Version
Jesus answered, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I didn't come to invite good people to turn to God. I came to invite sinners."

Logically, if one was not a sinner or "good people", they have no use for a Religion. Like how if one was enlightened and knew their true nature, what use would Buddhism be for them or meditation or anything else?

If one has it in their hand, there is no need to look for it elsewhere or go somewhere else for it.

The above Jesus quote may be confusing to some, but remember Jesus did not start a religion or a church. So the idea that some were good and not sinners and had no need for his teachings was fine with him.

If you look at sin as "missing the point": do we not all fall in that category?

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

All are sinners according to the Catholic faith. Not one person is without sin.

Luke 5:21-22 - Contemporary English Version
Jesus answered, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I didn't come to invite good people to turn to God. I came to invite sinners."

Logically, if one was not a sinner or "good people", they have no use for a Religion. Like how if one was enlightened and knew their true nature, what use would Buddhism be for them or meditation or anything else?

If one has it in their hand, there is no need to look for it elsewhere or go somewhere else for it.

The above Jesus quote may be confusing to some, but remember Jesus did not start a religion or a church. So the idea that some were good and not sinners and had no need for his teachings was fine with him.

Yes, that is a good thing to remember for those who would follow the teachings and examples of Jesus. It is not about judging ones neighbor. Unfortunately, not all do remember. This is where in some respects, whatever conception of God Buddhism may or may not have, it's focus on internal transformation/realization, and love, kindness, and compassion often make them, IMO, followers of Jesus's teachings, whether they specifically aim to do so or not.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

If you look at sin as "missing the point": do we not all fall in that category?

Yes, we do all miss that bulls eye, but the tricky thing is to root for your neighbor to score as well as yourself.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Altair

How do you define that ''dhamma'', Gem? Unless you're a secular Buddhist focussing purely on a simple practice of stress relief you would have a hard time to argue for it being universal or applicable to everyone. If not, then you have to accept a lot of superstition, as neurologist Sam Harris, as well as I, have noticed.

Dhamma is, like, the way nature is, and the idea of meditation for stress relief is more like a modern psychology concept. Buddhism has a complex philosophy of psychology and explains the process of self-generated suffering (stress), and through understanding that process one can end suffering, or be stress free. Hence, meditation in Buddhism is not a stress relief technique, but a way of witnessing yourself generating suffering, and understanding how suffering is generated (the cause of suffering) as as the means of ceasing to generate it.


In the Buddhist religion with all the sects and various costumes and rituals, there is a great deal of convolution, superstition, corruption and outright degeneracy, and that's to be expected because it's not fundamentally unlike any other religion in form or function. Most of it is superfluous, but at the core of dhamma is the truth. For example, everyone is breathing, everything is changing. all experience is impermanent etc... and every person is subject the way nature is.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by HITESH SHAH

I see more commonality & agreement than the differences / preferences in our approaches. Very much appreciate the detailed and elaborate feedback with minute details . Thanks for the same.

Of course. The difference are merely individualised preferences, beliefs, views. This is not important. Interesting enough, a guidance for living perhaps, but nothing in it is, like, carved in stone as knowledge. The wisdom is subtle and fluid, it changes with time, becomes deeper and more nuanced, and like with anything else, with practice we get a bit better at the art of living and being happy.