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Go Back   Spiritual Forums > Religions & Faiths > Buddhism

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  #411  
Old 19-09-2020, 04:52 PM
janielee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
You know I'm not interested in cut and pastes because the person who wrote it is not here for me talk to, and if they were here we could have a back and forth which is about the subject rather than pretending that there are answers. For example, to know what your hand feels like you just feel you hand, but it doesn't give you an answer as to what hands feel like. IOW, you have to pay attention right now attention to know.

The four truths are simply facts. There is suffering, it has a cause, it can be resolved and there is a way to resolve it. Indeed, the cause is said to be 'craving', which is the reactive dynamic between desire and aversion.

The right effort basically involves noticing unwholesome states and ceasing to generate them, not because you are adverse toward them and desire wholesome states, but because unwholesome states arise from delusion and create the conditions for harm. It is the insight into how unwholesome states generate misery and wholesome states generate happiness that enables one to recognise the delusion and futility of generating unwholesome states of mind. It is not the aversion toward unwholsome states and desire for wholesome states that constiture 'right effort', because such a state of desire and aversion is, itself, unwholesome. Rather, it is ardency for the truth. One can be factual as in, 'I see this is an unwholesome state' without any aversion toward it, nor desire for wholeness, and similarly, recognise wholesomeness as, 'this is a wholesome state' without the slightest desire or clinging involved. As one becomes more acutely aware of what their mind is doing, and less distracted, they can recognise that their unwholesomeness is function of desire and aversion - craving - and rather than trying to generate wholesomeness per-se, cease the root cause of desire and aversion that generates unwholemeness. That is done by being aware of the actual state you are in as a pure plain fact without any judgment of aversion toward it nor desire for a different state. Taking out that root 'craving' is the basis of right effort, and it's very hard to do. It requires honesty, commitment, diligence, persistence, determination and an unrelenting ardency for the truth.


The tricky part is the aversion to craving, which is the complex we are in, the aversion to aversion, the desire for desire, the craving for craving... that's a real loop right there...

Buddhist teachers are full of Light and are joyous in their own right.

JL
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  #412  
Old 19-09-2020, 05:50 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gem
Well, all I say is next time ...

That was a brilliant insightful post to me. I'd say as good as Krishnamurti or Tolle or Mooji. It's amazing these people have or had gotten rich from teaching such things. Made a living or a "career" from being spiritual teachers. Some still are teaching as a job, like Tolle or Mooji, some like Krishnamurti have died.

I'd not say all of those "teachers" teachings are great though. Sometimes their "lectures" are good and sometimes not so good, some I've seen were terrible. One can become rich with one book, like Tolle's book.

I've tried saving my posts and trying to turn them into a book, but when I go back and read the posts, yea terrible lol. Some here and there, I go wow very good. That's "it" or expresses it well. But the majority of my posts when I go back and read them are terrible in my opinion.

Then too, my "sin" if I were to name one, is "being too much in my head." So thinking and writing about such things is not a good past time for me. I'd say, when thinking about people who make a living from discussing such things, the important thing is to be "living/being" them, the "teachings." Unless that is well established, the writing will be wonky. That's where I am. I can intellectually get this stuff, but then the living or actualizing such things, is iffy. Sometimes I am "there," sometimes I even have these amazing metaphysical experiences, I've experienced the "source" a few times, but living it day to day, moment to moment to moment, meh... lol. Sometimes good sometimes bad, always feels like so much more to know or understand or "be."

Seems to me being a "spiritual teacher" is everyone's destiny. To mentor and guide those who are lacking in some awareness or understanding, but I must be what I want to teach in some very advanced way I think. To where I am not teaching or expressing what I know, but am instead, teaching or expressing what I am. That will take quite a few more incarnations, though I'd prefer to not be on earth to learn and instead, continue on my journey in the non-physical plane.

Teaching these "spiritual" things is odd, because naturally people prefer to only listen to themselves, not others. Also, if someone is not "interested" they get defensive and downright "hostile." Maybe that is part of the journey, to stop listening to others, to tune that out, resist that, then part two, to stop listening to ourselves, "ourselves" there being the habitual conditioned thought stream in our own minds. Then when we are free of our own thoughts, the thoughts of others are fine to us. Do not produce conflict. That's another thing, to let others be fully what they want to be, as long as they are doing no actual harm to others. We learn best from our own experience, not in others telling us "how it is."
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  #413  
Old 19-09-2020, 06:21 PM
Phaelyn Phaelyn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
perception of lack and limitation, the imagination of a solution, and a strategy for attaining it. The first truth teaches the basic lack and limitation in our lives — the clinging that constitutes suffering —

That writer went in a wonky way there...

The process is well stated:

Quote:
"perception of lack and limitation, the imagination of a solution, and a strategy for attaining it."

That describes perfectly becoming mind. or ego.

But then the writer jumps into the twilight zone.

Quote:
"The first truth teaches the basic lack and limitation in our lives".....

Way to change the subject....

In the prior sentence "perception of lack and limitation"

That is nothing more than the identification with an idea. One can be with "what is" and not mentally, conceptually, interpret it as a "person". Instead, deal with it fully and completely, as awareness. Non-verbally respond, with understanding, and intelligence, and love present.

Quote:
"perception of lack and limitation, the imagination of a solution, and a strategy for attaining it."
is the 1, 2, 3, of ego....

The one who imagines a solution, creates the problem.

Example: I am not enlightened. (perception of lack and limitation) I will become enlightened. (the imagination of a solution) I will meditate everyday. (a strategy for attaining it)

Now if we understand we are already enlightened, and are somehow obscuring that by something we are doing/being....

Example: I am not enlightened (why am I not experiencing what I am? What is here? What am I experiencing? An idea....?) Higher self awareness is developed.

See the wonky place that writer went
Quote:
"The first truth teaches the basic lack and limitation in our lives"

No nothing is lacking. It is here now, perfect, we are not perceiving it because our attention is on something else.
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  #414  
Old 19-09-2020, 06:29 PM
janielee
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Often the ego talks about ego. Talks about enlightenment, nibbana. Understanding is easy, no big secrets, someone smart can see it. Whatever.

Real or false, only a true Master can tell. The other thing that can save you is formal seated meditation. At least Gem is doing that for one.

JL
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  #415  
Old 19-09-2020, 07:18 PM
sky sky is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaelyn
That writer went in a wonky way there...

The process is well stated:



That describes perfectly becoming mind. or ego.

But then the writer jumps into the twilight zone.



Way to change the subject....

In the prior sentence "perception of lack and limitation"

That is nothing more than the identification with an idea. One can be with "what is" and not mentally, conceptually, interpret it as a "person". Instead, deal with it fully and completely, as awareness. Non-verbally respond, with understanding, and intelligence, and love present.

is the 1, 2, 3, of ego....

The one who imagines a solution, creates the problem.

Example: I am not enlightened. (perception of lack and limitation) I will become enlightened. (the imagination of a solution) I will meditate everyday. (a strategy for attaining it)

Now if we understand we are already enlightened, and are somehow obscuring that by something we are doing/being....

Example: I am not enlightened (why am I not experiencing what I am? What is here? What am I experiencing? An idea....?) Higher self awareness is developed.

See the wonky place that writer went

No nothing is lacking. It is here now, perfect, we are not perceiving it because our attention is on something else.



I doubt if Thanissaro Bikkhu would be concerned that you think He went ' Wonky '
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  #416  
Old 19-09-2020, 07:25 PM
sky sky is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
Ok. since you twisted my arm:

Onto the disk of the autumn full moon you transplant a seed syllable.
https://english.cdn.zeenews.com/site...86150-moon.jpg

Cool blue rays of the seed syllable radiate immense, cooling compassion beyond the limits of space, which fulfil the needs and desires of sentient beings. They radiate basic warmth, so that the confusions of sentient beings may be clarified.

Tathagatagarbha, the most immaculate, pure, clean, beautiful white Buddha nature.
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/c1/23/ce/c...1--letters.jpg

Shingon seed syllable A
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...HGvJw&usqp=CAU

of Ajikan meditation:
https://cdn-az.allevents.in/events7/...g?v=1600389224

*



Loved the Moon, beautiful.
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  #417  
Old 19-09-2020, 11:20 PM
sentient sentient is offline
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^
How did the story go …
This Aboriginal Elder was teaching a youth, taking him to look at a still bend in a river or something.
The full moon was shining on perfectly still water and the Elder said: “That is how we learn”.

The secret/silent password being “Reflection”
Which is also, how one “deep listens.”

Quote:
In the Buddhist teachings the symbol for compassion is one moon shining in the sky while its image is reflected in one hundred bowls of water.
- which points to nonduality.

Visualization helps in quieting and stilling the mind and opening up ones whole being in receptivity – a kind of enchantment – which is where ….. the inspiration and the desire to open up and empty out more comes in.

The visualization practice also helps in de-centralizing the ego/the "me" centre.

In one of the Tibetan Buddhist teachings, I read something like … visualization gives you a picture, an image (of an awareness shift)
– Once you have seen the picture, you’ll recognize the (dimensional) shift (if and when it comes, when everything starts to bathe in light, luminosity).

Mahavairocana or Dainichi Nyorai is the Cosmic Sun Buddha.
Moon does not have light of its own, but it is the purest, the most immaculate reflection of the (Central) Sun.

Ajikan practice:
https://www.aetw.org/jsp_ajikan.htm


Church/Moonlight image:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/76/e6...1c1f674194.jpg

*

Last edited by sentient : 20-09-2020 at 12:13 AM.
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  #418  
Old 20-09-2020, 12:57 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sentient
You are talking about the relative reference point, with the “me” as its centre.


I'm just saying the 'me my I mine' is central to reactivity.


Quote:
But one can step out of the endless self-referencing, after all the Buddhist view of Reality consists of 2 truths:
https://www.lionsroar.com/what-are-the-two-truths/



TBH I have never heard that before in Buddhist philosophy, and I honestly think the proliferation of Media discourse is just people trying to think of something more to say.


Quote:
The All-inclusive Totality has Emptiness at its Centre or “Vairocana” as its Central Deity (meaning reality in its totality).

A devotion develops for this wholesome centre which is beyond all dualities.
It is nonspecific love without anything objective to desire, yet it is like falling in love and desire to reflect or be a reflection of this emptiness arises with arising bliss.

*




You know I'm never going to buy into this idea of a special spiritual desire teehee.
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  #419  
Old 20-09-2020, 01:10 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sky123
' You know I'm not interested in cut and pastes '


No your not interested but maybe some who wish to understand Buddha's Teachings may find them interesting as I have done .

Btw when you go to the Ashram to ' Learn ' Buddhist Meditation as taught by The Buddha is He there for you to speak with




We don't talk during retreat. We can make appointments to talk to the teacher, but they only talk about your practice. There are discourses every night about the philosophy behind then meditation, but that's not taken-to-be-true. People typically find the philosophical discourse relates to the meditation they did that day. As the retreat goes on and participants deepen in insights, the philosophical discourses get more in depth in line with the development in insight. However, no one has to believe what is said at the discourses, and it isn't intended to be a relief from your uncertainty. It's more like a way of explaining why the meditation is done in the way it is done.
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  #420  
Old 20-09-2020, 01:31 AM
Gem Gem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by janielee
They are not sects, they are traditions - all equally valid and wholesome in how they guide students towards realization and discovery and maturity. Each appeals to different personality types, but if authentic, they should be similar in realization.


Of course they are sects, and people are converted, ordained and so forth. But I'm not saying that's improper, just that it isn't important, essential or fundamental to the goal of purification and liberation. If people like the thing, then by all means go ahead. I mean I'm involved with a sect of sorts myself and I'm happy with it, but it's not perfect and some aspects are cultish, but I just take the good with the bad and appreciate how they give me a room and feed me and leave me to my meditations.

However, I don't recommend it, and we know full well there many Buddhist schools and teachers that are corrupt, such as Trungpa's school for example, so I would advise people to be careful and make sure the school they might associate with is completely uncompromising in integrity...

Quote:
Aversion to chanting and forms etc. is just another aversion. This perception, I feel from where I sit, is a little one sided and drier than my experience of Buddhist traditions.


Exactly. But it's only a personal preference. I don't like it so I don't go to the hall for the morning chant. I stay in my room and meditate there instead. Lots of people like it, so they go, others prefer not to go, so they don't. I have attended more advanced chants which are used to purify the hall, but you have to be invited to that sort of thing, and you could refuse if you wanted to, because these things are just asides and not fundamental to insight or purification. On the other hand, I had a CD of the chanting (which is reciting suttas in Pali) and would play it for the kitchen staff every morning as the teacher asked me to since they can't go to the hall because they are busy making breakfast. Hence I don't have a hatred for the thing and it doesn't disturb me via adverse reactivity. It is simply my preference to meditate in my room rather than go to chanting.


Quote:
There's a reason that all spiritual traditions including Sufism, Christianity etc. utilize chants and the like - because it takes one of oneself - and in that there is commonality.

JL




I think people tend to give too much importance to the frills, and all I'm saying is chanting and so forth is fine, but completely unneccessary.
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