God in Buddhism

[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by sentient

Our meditation kinda becomes counterproductive if the practice to overcome OCB (Obsessive-Compulsive-Behaviour) becomes yet another form of OCB.

Like thinking incessantly about not-thinking.

Or holding onto equanimity like it was some kind of fortress as imo. real equanimity – like all truths, maintain themselves, therefore one can let go & lose “the watcher” of it.

Like losing one’s self in a chant and letting that river, that flow carry one into the ‘space of equanimity’ that just is.

Look mom - no hands!
Look mom – no watcher!

The art of directing energy, I suppose. Like formulating an unbending intent, making an effort – but then knowing when to let go of it to allow that intent-energy carry you …. trusting it to 'carry you' to your 'destination'.....

Without that trust, I suppose we try to convince others - at every post, at every sentence ad infinitum, but whom are we really trying to convince ...

Hard to explain.

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Yes very hard to explain.

I got an insight into it awhile ago and I still have not figured out how to state it in words or writing. It may be impossible to convey in words. But you are definitely pointing towards it above.

The one way I think I can maybe point to it, well it works for me anyway is, what would it be like to take a vacation from yourself? For a few moments, or a few hours, or a few days, or the rest of your life, take a complete vacation from yourself. That includes all of this spiritual philosophy stuff. Just live each moment, completely free from yourself, like you were just born and don't know or think a single thing and have no desire to add something to yourself at all.

Maybe say it this way as well.... there are over 8 billion people on this planet right now, 8 billion persons..... will one be missed if they disappeared? So let yourself be no one and nobody....no longer a person, no opinions, or beliefs, none at all.... completely here and present, but not here as somebody....

Even if you are nobody and nothing you will still be somebody and something to everyone else.... they will just notice you are happier, less gloomy, listen more, argue less or never again at all.....

Even to want to meditate means one is carrying around a bunch of mental stuff that is un-necessary to carry. If the path is a burden in anyway, one is still carrying a person around...

selfless - no self concern - total freedom from oneself

[sky]

Originally Posted by Phaelyn

Yes very hard to explain.

I got an insight into it awhile ago and I still have not figured out how to state it in words or writing. It may be impossible to convey in words. But you are definitely pointing towards it above.

The one way I think I can maybe point to it, well it works for me anyway is, what would it be like to take a vacation from yourself? For a few moments, or a few hours, or a few days, or the rest of your life, take a complete vacation from yourself. That includes all of this spiritual philosophy stuff. Just live each moment, completely free from yourself, like you were just born and don't know or think a single thing and have no desire to add something to yourself at all.

Maybe say it this way as well.... there are over 8 billion people on this planet right now, 8 billion persons..... will one be missed if they disappeared? So let yourself be no one and nobody....no longer a person, no opinions, or beliefs, none at all.... completely here and present, but not here as somebody....

Even if you are nobody and nothing you will still be somebody and something to everyone else.... they will just notice you are happier, less gloomy, listen more, argue less or never again at all.....

Even to want to meditate means one is carrying around a bunch of mental stuff that is un-necessary to carry. If the path is a burden in anyway, one is still carrying a person around...

selfless - no self concern - total freedom from oneself

It sounds as if your carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders

Equinimity, without too much attachment and too much aversion, in the middle....

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sky123

The path that takes you to nirvana is rooted in desire — in skillful desires.

So it's not uncharacteristic of The Buddha.

The Four Noble Truths give two roles to ' Desires '.


Depending on whether it's skillful or not. Unskillful desire is the cause of suffering; skillful desire forms part of the path to its cessation. Skillful desire undercuts unskillful desire, not by repressing it, but by producing greater and greater levels of satisfaction and well-being so that unskillful desire has no place to stand. This strategy of skillful desire is explicit in the path factor of right effort: etc...

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/...inglimits.html


This article may help.
Even without a Dharma Teaching we can see for ourselves that ' Desires ' can be extremely beneficial, it depends on how you use them.

I'm not interested in being helped or in helping anyone, but it is a reasonable article (though not in depth). I can't say I'm a big fan of his, so he isn't particularly compelling to me, but I tend to be critical of spiritual teachers in general, so that's not surprising.



His premises in themselves are not flawed because he says skillfulness is related to the desire happiness of yourself and others, which is summed up in the Metta Sutta: "May all beings be happy". His other criteria is based on desires that when acted upon create benefit rather than harm, which is the fundamental basis for Buddhist ethics. Hence his criteria for a 'skillful desire' is based on Sila and Metta, which implies virtue in a more general sense.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by sentient

Not to oppose ‘Mindfulness Meditation’ as such, because it is necessary and invaluable foundation imo.

Mindfulness is a very nuanced meditation, and refining the practice for a while you start to realise it is before anything else. It's like, it's 'already there' and everything else is, ummm... 'observable'

- but sometimes I think ‘Buddhism’ with its many practices and ‘Realms’ can be like a labyrinth where we can get stuck like ‘in-the-land-of-forgetfulness’, becoming endlessly fascinated by texts - trying to understand them all or wanting to perfect our equanimity, which might take the whole of one’s lifetime and in the end it might turn out to be a bottomless pit …..

Personally, I'm only into mindfulness, and not at all concerned with the various exotic practices, mysticism, and so forth.



The Buddhist philosophy is unique in the sense that it incorporates the practical, so the knowledge base or ontology includes three components. 1) You hear the dhamma teachings and; 2) You understand the teachings intellectually and 3) You examine yourself and see directly the ways in which the teachings might be true.

So sometimes it is good to do some other practices for a shift in perspective:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/5-rea...b0417c4066c233

Your comment to Phaelyn stopped me in my tracks:
“Henceforth, you don't need Buddha daddy to explain and define it for you”...

It made me realize just how very different Vajrayana is.

In my understanding – when entering into Vajrayana we leave the linear A to Z behind and ‘go spheric’ i.e. we enter into the Mandala of Sacred/Primordial Space some call ‘Metaphysical Space’.
http://mind-matrix.net/wp-content/up...t-mandala3.jpg

I have no interest at all in Vajrayana and mandalas, but the Buddhist 'path' is not linear as in from past to the future, like the past me was unenlightened and the future me will be enlightened. The path starts here and it stays here while the perception gets subtler and subtler.

In Theravada you speak about a “Stream-enterer”, but in Vajrayana (after initiation) we enter into the “Womb Realm” – but that doesn’t really even compare …

I have no idea what stream entry and womb realms are... but it sounds kinda mystical to me.


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Then the nondual teacher Rupert Spira talked about “Tantric Tricks”, how to give attention to the space at the back of the head.

Tantric tricks?!

I guess it's a reasonable technique for meditation. It is probably effective.

And I’m thinking – but, but, but doesn’t everybody! just naturally do that ???? Open the back of the head (where Bindu is) and tune in:
https://www.healthandyoga.com/html/r...es/chakras.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...Oe0Eg&usqp=CAU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-0JiGKgRcM

But then again, I suppose, one needs to have the view – what to tune in, what to find a union with … otherwise one might just become a directionless, disembodied ‘space cadet’.

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And a ‘penny dropped’ … of course (Shingon Japanese) Vajrayana Buddhism uses chant and drum - fantastic!:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Gilg7OstyA

Though there seem to be people teaching mindfulness with a drum as well .....

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Yea. To me the various sects have their own ways and I don't know any better. I have no idea what a union is supposed to be, and for me, drumming and chanting is just a tremendous din (I have grumpy old man syndrome ). I'm more like, be quiet, sit still, be alertly aware of what's happening, and don't react no matter what happens. That must seem really mundane compared to all the fantastic things Buddhism has come to offer, but I'm rather boring and ordinary I'm afraid. Thanks for the videos and stuff. I'll go back and have a look at those now.

[sky]

[quote=Gem]I'm not interested in being helped or in helping anyone, but it is a reasonable article (though not in depth). I can't say I'm a big fan of his, so he isn't particularly compelling to me, but I tend to be critical of spiritual teachers in general, so that's not surprising.



His premises in themselves are not flawed because he says skillfulness is related to the desire happiness of yourself and others, which is summed up in the Metta Sutta: "May all beings be happy". His other criteria is based on desires that when acted upon create benefit rather than harm, which is the fundamental basis for Buddhist ethics. Hence his criteria for a 'skillful desire' is based on Sila and Metta, which implies virtue in a more general sense.[/QUOTE



' I'm not interested in being helped '

Oh I thought you mentioned numerous times you attend an Ashram to learn Buddhist Meditation...

Yes it is a reasonable Article, the depth comes through practice.... The clarification regarding ' Desires ' should be helpful to those who are unsure....

[sentient]

Originally Posted by Gem

I have no idea what a union is supposed to be, and for me, drumming and chanting is just a tremendous din (I have grumpy old man syndrome ). I'm more like, be quiet, sit still, be alertly aware of what's happening, and don't react no matter what happens. That must seem really mundane compared to all the fantastic things Buddhism has come to offer, but I'm rather boring and ordinary I'm afraid. Thanks for the videos and stuff. I'll go back and have a look at those now.

That is what I meant by my guestion:
"How is your rhythm and tone? Can you totally let go into the flow or no? For and against argument?"
But I guess you understood my question to mean (your) ‘equanimity flow’ …..


When the drums come on, I don’t care what religion it is or what nationality, ethnic group or race …. all of those are already out of the window & I’m “in”. Definitely one of those innate patterns of the psyche I do not wish to change or overcome.


Missed out on the Sydney Rajneesh 'Orange' commune ‘sex orgies’, - but sheesh the “Orange Juice” band was good and from the commune I learned the nuances of meditative dancing.
https://www.oshonews.com/2017/08/05/...-orange-juice/

Satyananda Yoga Australasia had some scandal attached to it, but oblivious to it all I just really enjoyed the meals and the chanting on Sunday nights – beautiful.
Shivani once posted this beautiful piece, which reminded me of the rather deep (going within) in the collective atmosphere created:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw1GlarlU_A

But then, sometimes you would have one person in the group, who wouldn’t tune in and let go – staying “outside the flow” and I just couldn’t understand why?
How come? What gives? Why the barrier? What is there to hold onto or defend?

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Originally Posted by Gem

drumming and chanting is just a tremendous din

LOL
This reminded me of a time in the late 80's.

A Buddhist drummer or should I say a drummer who practiced Buddhism
was drumming on the counter with his sticks and then stopped and set them down and turned to me and said.
" It's not about the beats of the sticks it is all about the silence in between."

So I took his sticks and walked away. He was not happy, but I thought it was funny.

Anyway, sorry to butt in, but all this smoke in the air from our west coast burning up has got
me locked in for periods throughout the day.

[sentient]

^

Ha ha smart-ars*

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[Phaelyn]

Originally Posted by sky123

It sounds as if your carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders

Equinimity, without too much attachment and too much aversion, in the middle....

Once you get a taste of it, mere satisfaction is not enough.
It's the expansive being, free completely from self.
Moving from the "chatter" to the observer is only the first step.
Because the observer is still connected to the content.
Now when you empty yourself of the observer as well,
that's where the magical world is.

[sentient]

^
Bashô: Frog Haiku magic

Breaking the silence
Of an ancient pond,
A frog jumped into water —
A deep resonance.

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