GOSPEL OF THOMAS (new translation)

[BigJohn]

As the 50th verse of the Gospel of Thomas subtly reveals the core beliefs of Gnosticism, we notice they are far out of alignment with what is said in the A Gnostic Catechism.

We might ask "How can this be?"

The answer probably is that Gnostic beliefs, as hinted in the 50th verse, are not easily understood.

[Altair]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

If a person looks at The Gnostic's Prayer, you probably would conclude that it resonates very much with main stream Christianity. But then if you look at other Gnostic writings, they are very much polarized with what the prayer says.

The more I look into this the more clear it becomes why the founders of the Church made their choices when creating the canon. Not only is there polarization within Gnosticism but then there are central beliefs such as the world being evil and the existence of a demiurge, which is not what Jesus believed. Then there is salvation through practice which does not align with the main message of salvation through belief in Jesus as saviour.

Gnosticism and Christianity are very different.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Altair

The more I look into this the more clear it becomes why the founders of the Church made their choices when creating the canon. Not only is there polarization within Gnosticism but then there are central beliefs such as the world being evil and the existence of a demiurge, which is not what Jesus believed. Then there is salvation through practice which does not align with the main message of salvation through belief in Jesus as saviour.

Gnosticism and Christianity are very different.

As you said, Gnosticism and Christianity are very different, especially when you look at the core teachings.

The Gnostic's Prayer sounds very much like main stream Christianity, but it does not mention anything of the demiurge.

As one Gnostic writings, state, some of the stuff seem to come from the Book of Zoroaster.

Originally Posted by django

The gospel of Thomas opens with the line, "These are the secret words which the living Jesus spoke”. Sounds like hidden knowledge to me. Maybe the gnosis derived from experience is not on offer in the GOT.

Django,

To the contrary.....once Jesus spoke the words they were no longer secret.....He revealed the secrets. Prior to the time of Jesus the Spirit had been withheld....not given. John 7:37-39. Gnosis, by definition,(experience) was always available but without having access to the Spirit spiritual gnosis was not possible. Now since the coming of Christ it is possible.

Originally Posted by BigJohn

The Gospel of Thomas was never canonized.

GOSPEL OF THOMAS

  VERSE 50

(50) Jesus said,

      
             If they say to you:
       ‘Where do you come from?’

                 say to them:
     ‘We have come from the light,
  the place where the light has come
             into being by itself,
         has established itself and
       has appeared in their image.’

              If they say to you:
                   ‘Is it you?’

                       say:
            ‘We are its children,
         and we are the elect of
             the living Father.’

              If they ask you:
    ‘What is the sign of your Father
                among you?’

                say to them:
         ‘It is motion and rest.’"

            


The 50th verse of the Gospel of Thomas reveals the core beliefs of Gnosticism.

SECOND PART:
If they say to you:  ‘Is it you?’ say: ‘We are its children, and we are the elect of the living Father.’


The elect is an interesting word. It has as many, if not more variations of meaning then the Hebrew word translated as God (Elohim).

The 'elect' are those who shine with light.

The promise is that the 'elect' will return to the Upper Aeons where they will become one with the One. The Upper Aeons, as also the Lower Aeons, differ to what they mean within the variations of Gnosticism. The Lower Aeons is where Hell is. It is also where the Psychic race and the Hylic race exist. According to the Gnostics, there is one more race which is what they belong to and is superior to the other two races.

BigJohn,

I can understand the elect as those who have been given the Spirit. “Motion and rest” is interesting......I see motion as that which makes experience possible and rest(repose) as a call to contemplation, pondering and consideration. Those that take these steps indicate that they possess a sign of the Father.

Originally Posted by sky123

Gnosis - The Greek word Gnosis (γνῶσις) implies a type of knowledge that is derived from experience, not ' Hidden Knowledge '.

Sky123,

3 Greek words for knowledge: doxa(accepting what others tell you), episteme(proving something to be true or possible) and gnosis(experiencing the truth of something). Btw...if a UFO lands in my backyard that is gnosis....:)

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by Molearner

BigJohn,

I can understand the elect as those who have been given the Spirit. “Motion and rest” is interesting......I see motion as that which makes experience possible and rest(repose) as a call to contemplation, pondering and consideration. Those that take these steps indicate that they possess a sign of the Father.

As far as I know, the elect have not been given the Spirit. There is no reason to do that. Remember, Gnostic and Christian terms do not necessarily interchange.

The elect were once with the One but are now in the Lower Acheon which included Earth, which sometimes gets referred to as Hell.

The beginning began when the One decided to divide into many, which generally includes the Father, Mother, Christ, Sophia (Wisdom), Angels and the elect. Some scriptures indicate the elect were before any of the creation which would hold true if they came from the One. Not all Gnostic scriptures are in agreement with that view.

I should mention that the elect make up the Pneumatic Race.

as for “Motion and rest”, your comments are interesting. If I get around to it, I want to discuss that fuller as Part 3.

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

As far as I know, the elect have not been given the Spirit. There is no reason to do that. Remember, Gnostic and Christian terms do not necessarily interchange.

The elect were once with the One but are now in the Lower Acheon which included Earth, which sometimes gets referred to as Hell.

The beginning began when the One decided to divide into many, which generally includes the Father, Mother, Christ, Sophia (Wisdom), Angels and the elect. Some scriptures indicate the elect were before any of the creation which would hold true if they came from the One. Not all Gnostic scriptures are in agreement with that view.

I should mention that the elect make up the Pneumatic Race.

as for “Motion and rest”, your comments are interesting. If I get around to it, I want to discuss that fuller as Part 3.

I find it interesting that the "One decided to divide into many, which generally includes the Father, Mother, Christ, Sophia (Wisdom), Angels and the elect".

The Mormon Church holds that the Father is also a subset, but in there case, of the creator.

The Gnostic Father, is not the God mentioned in the Bible.

The God mentioned in the Bible as the creator, is Yaldabaoth. To the Gnostics, Yaldabaoth was created and was a mistake.

[jonesboy]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

The Gospel of Thomas was never canonized.

GOSPEL OF THOMAS

  VERSE 50

(50) Jesus said,

      
             If they say to you:
       ‘Where do you come from?’

                 say to them:
     ‘We have come from the light,
  the place where the light has come
             into being by itself,
         has established itself and
       has appeared in their image.’

              If they say to you:
                   ‘Is it you?’

                       say:
            ‘We are its children,
         and we are the elect of
             the living Father.’

              If they ask you:
    ‘What is the sign of your Father
                among you?’

                say to them:
         ‘It is motion and rest.’"

            


The 50th verse of the Gospel of Thomas reveals the core beliefs of Gnosticism.

SECOND PART:
If they say to you:  ‘Is it you?’ say: ‘We are its children, and we are the elect of the living Father.’


The elect is an interesting word. It has as many, if not more variations of meaning then the Hebrew word translated as God (Elohim).

The 'elect' are those who shine with light.

The promise is that the 'elect' will return to the Upper Aeons where they will become one with the One. The Upper Aeons, as also the Lower Aeons, differ to what they mean within the variations of Gnosticism. The Lower Aeons is where Hell is. It is also where the Psychic race and the Hylic race exist. According to the Gnostics, there is one more race which is what they belong to and is superior to the other two races.

Remember this is a new translation.

In the original it is chosen not elect.

50. Jesus said, "If they say to you, 'Where have you come from?' say to them, 'We have come from the light, from the place where the light came into being by itself, established [itself], and appeared in their image.' If they say to you, 'Is it you?' say, 'We are its children, and we are the chosen of the living Father.' If they ask you, 'What is the evidence of your Father in you?' say to them, 'It is motion and rest.'"

Also, if anyone is Buddhist notice that Motion and Rest would be the same as Form=Void. Which would show the same type of depth of realization.

The light came into being by itself, a self born soul, that must see itself as the best of it's line. A new god.

Just as all humans instinctively feel when born. thanks to our DNA.

All that happens in all scriptures is to happen in our own minds.

We all have souls. Too few look for it.

Regards
DL