GOSPEL OF THOMAS (new translation)

[davidmartin]

Originally Posted by Soul Seeker

That is what they were.

Not firewood.

Regards
DL

Yes I wanted to show i can agree with you on some things, this example is a moral issue. I grew up learning about WW1 and 2 and it's always stayed with me. My first job was cataloging VHS documentaries into a database for a uni history department so i had to watch them all to record start/stop times on the tapes (copied off TV the cheapskates). It was an eye opener to a 15 year old to see the ugly reality of war alone in a creepy old building

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by davidmartin

Yes I wanted to show i can agree with you on some things, this example is a moral issue. I grew up learning about WW1 and 2 and it's always stayed with me. My first job was cataloging VHS documentaries into a database for a uni history department so i had to watch them all to record start/stop times on the tapes (copied off TV the cheapskates). It was an eye opener to a 15 year old to see the ugly reality of war alone in a creepy old building

What was Jesus' teachings on the subject ...... pertaining to war?

Originally Posted by BigJohn

What was Jesus' teachings on the subject ...... pertaining to war?

I adlib from scriptures of when Jesus gains power.

Bring the non-believers who will not kneel to me and kill them.

Like Islam, the same god, apostates die.

That Yahweh/Jesus twins.

Gotta love em.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by davidmartin

Yes I wanted to show i can agree with you on some things, this example is a moral issue. I grew up learning about WW1 and 2 and it's always stayed with me. My first job was cataloging VHS documentaries into a database for a uni history department so i had to watch them all to record start/stop times on the tapes (copied off TV the cheapskates). It was an eye opener to a 15 year old to see the ugly reality of war alone in a creepy old building

Thanks for this.

If push came to shove, we likely agree on 80% of things and would not likely kill each other over the rest, unless our gang, religion, political affiliations, etc., has us forget our morals and we decide to kill each others children.

Stupidly!

All that we argue is how we interpret what we see from each others Socratic cave shadows.

I, of course, think myself more enlightened, in a major mental factor, morals, due to my apotheosis. Another large factor, my assertive speech may not always help. It is dark, but without dark, light cannot be seen.

I wish to be humbled by my ex tribe and they cannot as they know they follow an evil god.

I owe them a lot but my fellow Christians will not take correction.

That darn tribalism/racism thing.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by BigJohn

The Gospel of Thomas was never canonized.

GOSPEL OF THOMAS

  VERSE 49 & 50

(49) Jesus said,

      
 "Blessed are the solitary ones
       and the chosen ones.

 For you will find the Kingdom.


       For you came from it
and you will return there again."

           

(50) Jesus said,

      
             If they say to you:
       ‘Where do you come from?’

                 say to them:
     ‘We have come from the light,
  the place where the light has come
             into being by itself,
         has established itself and
       has appeared in their image.’

              If they say to you:
                   ‘Is it you?’

                       say:
            ‘We are its children,
         and we are the elect of
             the living Father.’

              If they ask you:
    ‘What is the sign of your Father
                among you?’

                say to them:
         ‘It is motion and rest.’"
            


Did you people notice, new words and thoughts were interjected in these two verses. One expression was "solitary ones and the chosen ones". What do you think the writer(s) were thinking about as to who were the 'solitary ones' and who are the 'chosen ones'?

Another expression is "For you came from it and you will return there again."
What do you think they were talking about?


Another expression is ‘We have come from the light, the place where the light has come into being by itself, has established itself and has appeared in their image.’
What does this expression really mean? And what is the 'image'?

There are other ideas that were introduced in these two scriptures. Can you find them and discuss them if you want.

Start by recognizing that the Kingdom of the God of Jesus is here and now.

Next. Look up Freud and Jung's Father Complex.

Jesus was a naturalist, not a supernaturalist.

He had Gnosis and logos. Not mythos.

He was one of the intelligentsia.

Regards
DL

[FallingLeaves]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

The Gospel of Thomas was never canonized.

GOSPEL OF THOMAS

  VERSE 49 & 50

(49) Jesus said,

      
 "Blessed are the solitary ones
       and the chosen ones.

 For you will find the Kingdom.


       For you came from it
and you will return there again."

           

(50) Jesus said,

      
             If they say to you:
       ‘Where do you come from?’

                 say to them:
     ‘We have come from the light,
  the place where the light has come
             into being by itself,
         has established itself and
       has appeared in their image.’

              If they say to you:
                   ‘Is it you?’

                       say:
            ‘We are its children,
         and we are the elect of
             the living Father.’

              If they ask you:
    ‘What is the sign of your Father
                among you?’

                say to them:
         ‘It is motion and rest.’"
            


Did you people notice, new words and thoughts were interjected in these two verses. One expression was "solitary ones and the chosen ones". What do you think the writer(s) were thinking about as to who were the 'solitary ones' and who are the 'chosen ones'?

Another expression is "For you came from it and you will return there again."
What do you think they were talking about?


Another expression is ‘We have come from the light, the place where the light has come into being by itself, has established itself and has appeared in their image.’
What does this expression really mean? And what is the 'image'?

There are other ideas that were introduced in these two scriptures. Can you find them and discuss them if you want.

'solitary' roughly means 'alone'. Could refer to those who live on the edges of the collective reality and don't have much of an 'in' with societies...

Chosen means those who were ordained for a certain destiny. Usually in the bible the jewish folk lay claim to that...

the way the passage is written it seems like those are two separate classes of people who are grouped together... but I don't know why...

'have come from it and will return there again' refers to going home... finally... but I can't say I know what 'home' looks like any more... and without knowing what it looks like I can't comment on what it means to have come from there or go back.

'the light has come into being et.al'... a reference to the idea that things just happen because they do, and arguing over who or what 'caused' them is not very fruitful. for example most seasoned meditators know they can't cause the end result to happen but it may happen nonetheless... but this isn't about meditation... 'light' is sometimes associated with knowledge, or with a way of life... in the same way god is the only one considered good it could be considered that the kind of light being discussed comes from god, just a question of what the light is trying to spell out... which the phrase 'in our image' herein kind of hints at, it is something to do with us perhaps, along the lines of something we 'look like' because that is what image means... If I want to get fanciful I might point perhaps to the lost 'true nature' that is hinted at sometimes in ancient books... what we would look like in terms of what we would be if unfettered by the shackles that confound us...

we are the elect, the children of the living father kinda bears that out that light comes from God (with the phrase living father) while at the same time saying something has come from the light and 'we' are that...

motion and rest... moving things then taking a break from intending to move them and letting things move by themselves... apparently both sides of that coin are important. Not the first time that was said, as God previously instituted one whole day of the week just for stopping activity and not moving around very much. But it isn't much used from what I can tell... Anyway plants grow on their own if you but give them a little water and sunlight from time to time.

[davidmartin]

The gnostic writings i like is when they surprise you with something
i always found this really appealing

"I am the life of my thought that dwells within every power and every eternal movement, and in invisible Lights and within the Archons and Angels and Demons, and every soul dwelling in Tartaros, and in every material soul. I dwell in those who came to be."

that transcendence as described never fails to astonish me each time i read it

Originally Posted by FallingLeaves

'solitary' roughly means 'alone'. Could refer to those who live on the edges of the collective reality and don't have much of an 'in' with societies...

Chosen means those who were ordained for a certain destiny. Usually in the bible the jewish folk lay claim to that...

the way the passage is written it seems like those are two separate classes of people who are grouped together... but I don't know why...

'have come from it and will return there again' refers to going home... finally... but I can't say I know what 'home' looks like any more... and without knowing what it looks like I can't comment on what it means to have come from there or go back.

'the light has come into being et.al'... a reference to the idea that things just happen because they do, and arguing over who or what 'caused' them is not very fruitful. for example most seasoned meditators know they can't cause the end result to happen but it may happen nonetheless... but this isn't about meditation... 'light' is sometimes associated with knowledge, or with a way of life... in the same way god is the only one considered good it could be considered that the kind of light being discussed comes from god, just a question of what the light is trying to spell out... which the phrase 'in our image' herein kind of hints at, it is something to do with us perhaps, along the lines of something we 'look like' because that is what image means... If I want to get fanciful I might point perhaps to the lost 'true nature' that is hinted at sometimes in ancient books... what we would look like in terms of what we would be if unfettered by the shackles that confound us...

we are the elect, the children of the living father kinda bears that out that light comes from God (with the phrase living father) while at the same time saying something has come from the light and 'we' are that...

motion and rest... moving things then taking a break from intending to move them and letting things move by themselves... apparently both sides of that coin are important. Not the first time that was said, as God previously instituted one whole day of the week just for stopping activity and not moving around very much. But it isn't much used from what I can tell... Anyway plants grow on their own if you but give them a little water and sunlight from time to time.

Your first showed insight.

The rest, if I read you right, is mythos, not logos based,and a poor rendition of Jesus thinking.

Regards
DL

Originally Posted by davidmartin

The gnostic writings i like is when they surprise you with something
i always found this really appealing

"I am the life of my thought that dwells within every power and every eternal movement, and in invisible Lights and within the Archons and Angels and Demons, and every soul dwelling in Tartaros, and in every material soul. I dwell in those who came to be."

that transcendence as described never fails to astonish me each time i read it

Thanks for this.

I have never been able to enjoy the arts as much as some.

I started too lake in appreciating it due to a, ah, interesting youth.

I did not learn of hate and love till I was 36.

No sympathy.

I made up for it.

Regards
DL

[BigJohn]

Originally Posted by BigJohn

The Gospel of Thomas was never canonized.

GOSPEL OF THOMAS

  VERSE 50

(50) Jesus said,

      
             If they say to you:
       ‘Where do you come from?’

                 say to them:
     ‘We have come from the light,
  the place where the light has come
             into being by itself,
         has established itself and
       has appeared in their image.’

              If they say to you:
                   ‘Is it you?’

                       say:
            ‘We are its children,
         and we are the elect of
             the living Father.’

              If they ask you:
    ‘What is the sign of your Father
                among you?’

                say to them:
         ‘It is motion and rest.’"



            

The 50th verse of the Gospel of Thomas reveals the core beliefs of Gnosticism.

Can anybody see what those beliefs are?