Down the objective rabbit hole

[Starman]

Ewwerrin, It is not an A,B,C, step by step thing; the human mind does A,B,C, this step first and then that and so on. But non-duality is beyond thoughts, it is beyond our internal dialogue, or how we may talk to ourselves. I did not go straight into non-duality, rather I had to learn the lessons duality were showing me before I was able to truly let go to non-duality.

If I may suggest I think it is important to understand your pain; you can not let go until you understand what you are holding on to. Your pain and suffering is a symptom of something deeper. Something that maybe first you should attempt to uncover.

I can share my journey out of darkness but my story is unique to me and your story in duality is unique to you. Thus what you uncover will not be the same as what I uncovered. Nonetheless, uncovering your struggle will lead to the same spaciousness and freedom which is available to all of us. You are knocking on the door right now, humbly asking, and it will be given unto you. Keep knocking until the door that reveals light opens.

Most people talk about pain and pleasure, but the goal is not bliss or pleasure, rather the goal is to be at peace with yourself. It is easier to acquire inner peace then it is to seek out bliss. Inner peace may come with joy and bliss but that is not the goal. Learning how to be with the silence that is within you is the goal. Learning how to quiet your mind at will may be the first step, if there are any steps.

In the beginning what worked for me was journaling my feelings, write down how you feel and what you are going through; this will help get it out of you where you can see it, or at least you will be able to see how you view your struggle. Healing is a journey, it is not an instant fix, so is coming to exist in non-duality, that is also a journey. Once you surrender to inner silence you may find that all you have been through prompted you towards inner peace and a one-ness of being.

The time it takes is different for different people. I don’t like pain so I became almost obsessed with alleviating my pain; not by pushing it away but by looking to see what was below that pain, below the surface of that struggle. This you can find out just by studying yourself. I wrote an autobiography decades ago; it took me a year to write but it revealed patterns in my life that were causing me pain. I had to change those patterns. There are lots of free techniques you can use to help heal yourself, a bunch of them are spelled out right here on this forum. Understand that how a person defines something is how they will approach that something.

Gestalt therapy talks about reframing things; this is why writing things down can show you the words you are using and maybe can help you reframe things in a manner that is more useful and helpful. It is all about understanding yourself, or as Socrates said “Know Thyself.” That knowing should take place on every level. It is a journey, that which comes to you quickly may leave quickly but that which you build a foundation for may stay around longer.

Peace and Good Journey

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

How does one let go and experience nonduality?

I think wanting some experience is a form of conflict. To want nothing is a form of peace. It's like how trees break in the wind and grass does fine. Trees are solid and strong an unmoving so a strong wind breaks them. Grass moves with the wind. Grass does not resist. Grass is flexible.

Wind comes and goes. When it's there, the grass is moving. When it is gone, the grass is still. The tree is trying to make things a certain way instead of just being one with whatever is.

Every moment we are in an experience. Why want something other than what is? We can change the what is if we can, if we can't change it, we make the best of it. Some things we can control others we can't. I chose to not impose demands on myself. There is nothing I need to find or experience or do or change. I just want to be at peace within and without in the now, the only place I have ever been or will be.

I do my best to make now about inner and outer peace, about love and acceptance.

[movingalways]

Ultimately, regardless of how one lets go of their belief in duality, what stands at the root of the letting go is knowing that awareness or life or God is not two. Once there is a grounding in the truth of not-two, letting go of analyzing a divided reality happens naturally. Note: naturally does not mean painlessly.

[Ewwerrin]

Thanks for all your input. I can't help but deduce that when I'm dead, then there will be nonduality. As duality and then nonduality is fake and still a duality. I'm not sure if nonduality can be realised in life as a personal self.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

I can't help but deduce that when I'm dead, then there will be nonduality. As duality and then nonduality is fake and still a duality.
I'm not sure if nonduality can be realised in life as a personal self.

And why would there be non-duality after death? Consider the possibility that death is simply discarding the physical body, and otherwise we remain unchanged mentally and emotionally.
We may be in more subtle worlds of form but these subtle worlds of form are still duality. So why would we suddenly discover non-duality?

You have created this artificial division between duality on the one hand and non-duality on the other hand, and so you regard them as still being a duality, a duality of two separate things.
This is just another mental concept. Maybe consider that non-dual Being pervades all apparent duality. There is nowhere in duality where non-duality is not present.
(Hmmm, a triple negative - I hope it makes sense.)

And yes, it is not the personal self which realises non-duality. Because the personal self has no real existence, it is just a collection of patterns and memories.
It is only Consciousness identifying with this collection of patterns and memories which sustains the idea that there is a personal self.
When Consciousness ceases to identify with a small separate personal self and instead identifies with the Source of Consciousness then the personal self ceases to be an identity.

Just offering a different perspective.

Peace

[Maisy]

I think duality and non-duality are mental constructs.

Non-duality is not the opposite of duality in my view. Both are ideas or concepts. Imaginary in other words. They are a mental interpretation. But yes as a mental idea they are opposites. But both are just mental ideas and concepts. I think true "non-duality" (as lived experience) is beyond all mental ideas and concepts.

Neither exist if mind is transcended or is no longer the center of focus.

Mental concepts are as real as anything else and can be experienced as reality. That's what human beings do. Create reality in their minds (then experience these ideas and beliefs) and sometimes extend these concepts into the physical. Like a restaurant named Joes Burgers. It starts as a mental concept or idea. The logo, the menu, all of it starts in the imagination.

Duality and non-duality are the same. They start as an idea.

I think, from reading the words of mystics and philosophers and guru's, that we can experience a different world. One without the imagination or concept or idea or belief.

I think doing represents a split mind or a consciousness concept merge. A delusional point of reference in my view. It's a mind based consciousness and to live "non-duality" the point of reference is not the conceptual or mind. One does not need an idea about now to experience now. One does not need a mental interpretation of now to experience now. And in fact without the idea or interpretation as words and sentences and mental concepts, more is experienced, not less. Those things mask reality. They are like looking through dark sunglasses. The experience is more without these filters.

Like the sentence - One let's go. Who or what lets go? That is an idea based on mind. Can we be here now without any intrusion by mind at all? Not one word? No doer? What is there to do or change or find without adding an idea to now?

To just be, right here, right now, and not add one thing to what is. This now is it, perfect, infinite, the final destination. We have arrived where we started. It is the end and beginning and it is nothing at all, as no concept or idea is present. But it is everything as well.

[Maisy]

Originally Posted by iamthat

It is only Consciousness identifying with this collection of patterns and memories which sustains the idea that there is a personal self.

I think so too. It is something we carry with us. But then it's source is the physical brain and we will carry that with us until we leave it and return to the energy based dimension.

I think we do carry a false personal self as we are merged with the brain for this incarnation. We can transcend it and stop identifying with it or have the potential to anyway. I think that is what "enlightenment" experiences are about. But while we have a false delusional person self we carry, I think there is a true personal self, the self of consciousness itself.

There is the self that knows or finds the false self eh? But yea I think "personal self" is not a good description as it is more like a universal self but it is still self known as one point of perception. So "personal" in that sense.

Originally Posted by iamthat

When Consciousness ceases to identify with a small separate personal self and instead identifies with the Source of Consciousness then the personal self ceases to be an identity.

For me there is no step two. "Consciousness ceases to identify with a small separate personal self" That is the whole thing in my view. The first and only step. I think there is no "identification with the source of consciousness" as all identifying or mental conceptualization has stopped. But then our source is the source of consciousness so we manifest aspects of it's nature and not the nature of the physical life form.

[Maisy]

I think we keep identity forever. But in enlightenment it changes to maybe our true identity.

[movingalways]

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

Thanks for all your input. I can't help but deduce that when I'm dead, then there will be nonduality. As duality and then nonduality is fake and still a duality.

You do not have to wait until you are body dead to realize how the thinking mind splits awareness into a duality. Stop thinking...be aware of the silence...be aware of when you split the silence with your thoughts.That's all that is needed to wake up.

Dual and nondual are helping words, no more, no less.

[Starman]

For me, and I can only speak for myself, non-duality can be a matter of perception but it can also be a very consuming actual experience. The most poignant experience of non-duality which I have had is what many call “cosmic consciousness.” It is not a construct, not something that can be constructed.

In cosmic consciousness you blend, your very being blends with everything and you truly experience a one-ness of being outside of your human body while you are still here on Earth and your consciousness expands. Your soul, for lack of a better word, expands beyond your body in all directions like a formless cosmic egg.

In cosmic consciousness you find you are no longer in your body rather your physical body is inside of you, your consciousness, and you are actually the ocean, the water, the sky, the trees, and one with all life. It may even extend beyond this Earth into outer space among the stars and planets. I have had this experience twice. It was not something which I seek or to the best of my knowledge made happen, rather it happened spontaneously, as most of my spiritual experiences do.

Although, when non-duality is a part of perception, in my experience, when I behold the light that is inside of me I began to actually see that light inside of others. This has nothing to do with thoughts; it has to do with actually embracing our own inner light, a light which is inside of everyone and all things that have been created. You start to see that light in all things when your third eye begins to open, your mind and body are literally flooded with light, and you feel a oneness, a companionship, with all people and things. Ancient yogis, and even some who do meditation today, have experienced this.

These are the most poignant experiences which I have had of non-duality. Of course non-duality can also be a mental construct where we decide in our mind to feel one with others. But does that also include a one-ness with the food we eat or water we drink, does that perception include a oneness with a wasp or scorpion? When you actually have that experience of non-duality the insects, plants, animals, and elements automatically embrace you as one with them; they will not harm you; this is also my experience.