Do you even lift?

[Lucky 1]

Interestingly....after watching that video I just realized that I've instinctively used what amounts to a hook grip with a reverse grip for years when the weight starts to get to my upper ranges of what I handle......just helps me to hang on better.

Back when I competed I used to do what we all called a rack deadlift as a way to work on top end lock out of the movement. In a power rack set the pins so that the bar sits just below the knee's and really load it up!

Back then a number of APF judges were disqualifying lifts for the shoulders being rounded and not locking out and this worked on that problem quite well

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Lucky 1

Interestingly....after watching that video I just realized that I've instinctively used what amounts to a hook grip

Hookgrip comes from olympic lifting where everyone uses it, and it helps to have a relaxed hang so you can turn the bar over easily for the clean and the snatch.

In deadlift it works because it keeps both arms the same, whereas the switch grip externally rotates the underhand, stretches the biceps, which why powerlifters tend to tear the biceps off their underhanded arm - that's hard to watch. The problem is, the underhand side of the bar wants to drift away from the body, and feels like lifting crooked. Most people turn to straps when their double overhand runs out, so they never develop any grip technique at all. The really huge strongmen like Eddie Hall and Thor hold world record deadlifts, but couldn't lift that much without straps, and even with the records, in actual pound for pound strength they are not the best.

Danny Grigsby pulled 487.5 kilos, weighing in at 277lbs. Raw lift. No suit. Powerlifting competition lift. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPOLddnFqEs (sumo). That's hook grip.

Eddie Hall was the first man to ever pull 500kg, but with bodyweight of about 420lbs, using straps. Offically a strongman competition lift... a deadlift only challenge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGaN66dcZEs. (conventional)

Hathor pulled 501, but he's even heavier than Eddie Hall, with straps, and it wasn't competition lift. It was in his own gym. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG_dpq3Av9Y. (conventional)

Recently. Krzysztof Wierzbicki pulled 502.5kg for the unofficial record, and he's a lightweight at about 240lb bodyweight. Used straps, though, and not in competition, so he pulled more than Eddie and Thor, and pound for pound, smashed them right out of the park - but does he have the grip to beat Grigsby? (sumo)

I didn't even realise it until just now, but Jamal Browner pulled 500kg (unofficial), but it looks like he used bar hooks rather than straps, and he's not a big guy (sumo): Here's Jamal Vs. Wierzbick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQzaWnAJ5vw

To me, Grigsby has the win because he lifted raw, no straps, in competition, and unless the others can lift more at that bodyweight with their bare hands in actual competition, they are not as good.

It's amazing that Hall showed the world that 500kg is possible, and now it's like everyone is doing it - even regular sized dudes. What in blazes is going on with that?

[Gem]

Hook grip https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP6NQPM1tdQ

[Gem]

Just looking at Thor's raw lift for powerlifting, he failed at 430kg because he lost his grip on his underhand side.

[batsy]

I am doing push/pull/hybrid, but I've had to modify some exercises because squats hurt my knees (even though I am doing them right according to a trainer). I've removed all squats from my list and added ankle hops, leg presses, calf raises, adduction/abduction, etc. But I feel like I am not being a genuine lifter, mainly because the people I was lifting with made it seem like if I can't do squats I am just not trying hard enough. I went to the doctors and got xrays, and she said there's nothing wrong (funny how doctor's say that to you when you are in pain lol). But I've had to do away with squats, deadlifts, thor's hammer, just to name a few. What do you think?

[Gem]

Originally Posted by batsy

I've removed all squats from my list and added ankle hops, leg presses, calf raises, adduction/abduction, etc. But I've had to do away with squats, deadlifts, thor's hammer, just to name a few. What do you think?

I think one problem with professional trainers is we are subsumed by a narrative that says compound lifting such as squats, deads, bench and overhead press are the foundation of weight lifting, and that's true, but these lifts are pretty technical, and probably not suitable for novice lifters.

My approach doesn't introduce the big lifts until after at least three months of training. The progression I use to lead up to barbell back squat is leg extension, isometric back extensions, glute bridge aka hip thrusts, leg adduction/abduction, step ups, plank variations for core stability, and calf raises to a full stretch for ankle mobility and maybe some wall sits in the first phase, then lunge variations and single leg deads with a light kettle in the second phase, then goblet squats, leg presses, romanian deads and hug medicine ball squats in the third phase, and only then, in the 4th phase, barbell back squat. It takes a few months to get there.

I have a couple of peers who are top of the game, but then I have peers who are really just generalists, and they really aren't qualified to teach the big lifts. I offer to help them, but they think they know more than they do and start telling me there's different ways, that their way is as just good as what I say, that it's just different opinions - and they don't really want to improve anyway.

You shouldn't do anything that hurts in a bad way, so don't barbell back squat, you have already found pain free ways around it and that's for the best, and actually, looking at your replacements for the squat, it's very similar to what I program as progressions toward the barbell squat, so your intuitive instincts there look very good to me. I'd say you thought it through and adjusted very well!

[batsy]

Originally Posted by Gem

The progression I use to lead up to barbell back squat is leg extension, isometric back extensions, glute bridge aka hip thrusts, leg adduction/abduction, step ups, plank variations for core stability, and calf raises to a full stretch for ankle mobility and maybe some wall sits in the first phase,

I forgot the hip thrusts, but I also do those with the Smith machine. I will look at the others you mention, including wall sits.

I will work on those first.

I am switching to a new gym tomorrow, and they don't have squat racks, so I am a bit relieved

Thanks for the input!

[Gem]

Originally Posted by batsy

I forgot the hip thrusts,

For hip thrusts, Bret Contraras (the glute guy) is excellent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM8XHLYJoYs&t=198s

The glutes are really strong, but for some mysterious reason, people often have a disconnect and can't fire them effectively. It often comes from a malfunctioning foot due to excessive shoe wearing, and people can't press properly through the first ray, which is the structure leading to the big toe, and if that isn't working right, the feet aren't steady, the tibia rotates internally, the knees fold inward and the glutes dont fire properly in atheltic movements. It has meaningful postural implications as well. I don't really bother with special foot exercises, but I utilize the calf raise and really push that contraction as if one is trying to go right up to ballerina tip-toe position, and I especially incorporate runner's calf raise aka wall leaning calf raise with single leg. Most will talk about building the calves, and of course it does, but the reason I utilise it is to try to give some integrity to the first ray, particularly with the single leg runner calf raise, and the other variation, elevated weighted calf raise, to improve dorsi flexion through the ankle buy getting that deep stretch under load. Hence I alternate elevated calf raise for that deep stretch under load on one day, and runners calf raise on the other day. The calves like 15-20 rep range, and they burn. AND, the calf muscle growth is a wonderful side effect. OK so that's the feet, but it's actually about the hip.

Then the hip thrust. When it gets to the top, really the top at full contraction, I make sure the client is consciously, intentionally contracting the glutes hard and feeling if both glutes are working pretty much the same, which is perhaps a 2 second pause, or as soon as one is satisfied they both identically feel full contracted, repeat. Over and over, training the neurological mind muscle connection.

The isometric back extension isn't actually for the back as much as it is the for the glute-through-hamstring system, though it does incorporate the erectors and other spine stablisers (stable core) into that fold. The client holds themselves straight out against gravity for a full minute or so pushing their feet into the platform if there is one, legs fully straight, and tensing the glutes in the same way, feeling they are working pretty much the same. Otherwise it will feel like the lower back is working in the lower portion of the spinal erectors, which we don't want. If a minute is dead easy, I can raise the back of the leg extension apparatus if it seems sensible, but usually I progress to single leg holds, which is pretty hard.

The same with hip thrust, 1st standard unweighted ones on the floor, then elevated on a box or a step up platform or bench (I find a bench is a little too high, though) and when 20 hard contractions is no problem, sets of 12 to 15 single leg. Of course the tempo is controlled to about 3 second descents, and it burns. If the client exceeds that progression, then we move on to the barbell thrust or smith machine thrusts, by which time, the glutes fire hard as they are supposed to.

The abductions are pretty important in early stages because glute-medius is just about always weak and it's the main hip rotator as well, and when hip rotation is unstable, the whole leg is wonky and that affects the knee.

Yep. we really look at having a solid foot and a stable hip, and instability in that foot-to-hip integrity is usually behind knee pain (or you're old and they're a bit worn out lol) - Then the leg basically takes care of itself with quad attachments to the knee cap actually a secondary consideration, but still significant depending on the individual.

The other overlooked structure is the adductors, not because they pull the leg inward, but because they play a fairly significant role in hip extension or the hip thrust/hip hinge movement, so that always a good idea, and a very under-trained muscle group in most cases, including mine.

Of course there is a million other things, like lateral lunges and side step ups and so on but I think the above are the main considerations, particularly for new lifters, and even experienced lifters who missed vital steps early in their training-life. Indeed, many experienced athletes have to be regressed and built up properly to extend their competitive career through injury prevention.

[Gem]

Just watched Thor's 1st official Powerlifting meet.

He failed his third deadlift attempt at 410kg (the video has freedom units for the muricans).

It looks like he switched his underhand grip to the other arm since his last public lift, which failed at 430Kg due to lost grip on his under hand side.

To me it looked like he messed up his start position a little bit. He was a bit loose at the bottom and the weight pulled him a tad too far forward off the floor. The way he messed about with his grip makes me think he hasn't found his groove with that yet. Indeed, it is perfectly clear in the video that the bar swung away from him on the underhand grip side. Of course as a Strongman, he's always used lifting straps in the past. He didn't approach the bar with fire, so I wouldn't be surprised if he's working around an injury, which might have been sustained earlier in the meet whith his failed third squat attempt.

He didn't fail squat by just getting crushed under load. Same as in his deadlift, he was also too far forward in his squat coming out of the hole, and had to dump the bar behind him. Failing a max squat that heavy in that way would have shaken him and put him off his game a bit. It's scary.

The spotters were excellent. The bar was in free fall and it was a quick catch. If not for them, Thor wouldn't be walking around.

Thor's bench press was outstanding!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsslTcLU9Ao

[Altair]

Why is it ''Do you even lift?''

I don't. Haven't been to the gym since the early days of the pandemic. I don't miss it (everyone is being a soloist.. where's the contact between random people?), and if I were to ever return, I'd not be focussing on muscle growth for the sake of it. It takes a lot of time, and unless you need it for work it will just be for 'show'.