Meditation, some answers

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 46 EXTRACT:

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

All information/Knowledge that mankind wants to have,
is right there, inside everyone.

It bears repeating one more time.
Shortly before her departure from the earth plane, I asked my teacher a question and she responded: "You're an experienced meditator. Meditate and all (that is important to know) will be revealed".
Amen !

[BigJohn]

What Sanjay wrote can not be proven nor disproven.
Sanjay made some really interesting observations which he shared with us unconditionally.
I think he did a good job.

[Miss Hepburn]

Well, actually it can be 'proven', BJ. Or as I would rather put it-
'You can see yourself - up-close and personal'.
Meditate, nice and long is the thing.

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

QUOTE 46 EXTRACT:she responded: "You're an experienced meditator. Meditate and all (that is important to know) will be revealed".
Amen !

That is true but it is going to e quite long effort. There are no shortcuts.

with love,
sanjay

Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn

Well, actually it can be 'proven', BJ. Or as I would rather put it-
'You can see yourself - up-close and personal'.
Meditate, nice and long is the thing.

That is one way of proving it. But it requires a very long and herculean effort. It is not a matter or days, weeks, or even years. Sometimes even decades are insufficient. And, in today's time, not many are interested putting that much effort in anything, let alone thing like meditation.

with love,
sanjay

let us talk a bit about this proving/disproving.

As i understand, there are two ways of proving anything.

One is empirical/scientific method which can be demonstrated publicly. But, everything cannot be proved in the labs. For such things, there is a different way of proving and that is philosophically.

In philosophy, things are not proved in labs. Instead of that, a philosopher comes up with some initial premises and then builds its theory on that particular set of premises. If that theory explains all related phenomenon perfectly, then it is assumed that his initially postulated premises are right.
That is a well established practice.

Many of us would have heard the name of Friedrich Nietzsche, who was a very famous German philosopher and perhaps the most followed one in present time. He put forth a concept of Will to power. He claims that this WTP is the alone underlining driving force for all humans. He further explains human behaviors and morality Based on this WTP.

But, can this WTP can be proved empirically/ scientifically and demonstrated publicly? I do not think so. Still, it is widely accepted as true because it explains many human behaviors perfectly.

The same benchmark i ask for spiritual premises from intellectual populace. Do not consider those true on their face value but if those can answer all pertinent questions/ phenomena, then some weightage should be given to them.

In the same way, i can explain all spiritual phenomena based on my premises(which are not complete yet) which i have given forth. I would ask all readers to ask for all kind of Questions/explanations containing what i have said so far. I would be happy to answer.

lastly, though i cannot prove scientifically anything right now and especially on the net, but believe me i know the way how all this can be proved empirically and demonstrated publicly like other scientific theories. It requires some means (scientific instruments and their operators) which i cannot afford right now but i am working on that. Perhaps, one day.............

with love,
sanjay

Originally Posted by New Guy

Hi,

I am new to this forum and new to meditation. I have tried mediation at various times in my life and have struggled to quiet my mind enough to “get into it”.

About 1 month ago I stumbled onto Wim Hof breathing exercises and wondered what it was like, so gave it a go for no reason other than curiosity. I unexpectedly found it helped me to relax very deeply, and as an unintended consequence I felt compelled to meditate afterward given the calm state I experienced. I have continued to use these breathing exercises to get mentally and physically into a calm, quiet state followed by meditation for 10-20 minutes, depending on when I naturally feel ready to discontinue meditating.

In the past month I have had 2 experiences I can’t quite understand or explain and wanted to seek advice. The first experience occurred two weeks ago, when during meditation my left leg and left arm twitched quite noticeably, followed by what I would describe as a full body twitch/spasm. I felt very emotional early on in this meditation and I experienced or ‘witnessed’ internally, what I can only describe as light. It was Like a vision of a white silhouette of myself or perhaps someone else, meditating, made up of and consumed by light (sounds weird I know), and I briefly ‘understood’ everything, how we are all connected, it made sense.

It only lasted a second or two before I became ‘aware’ of the experience and started thinking as opposed to observing without thinking, and as soon as I did that it was gone. This happened twice in a short space of time and I ‘understood’ but I no longer remember what I understood, I remember the words to describe the experience but not the feeling or the knowledge it brought.

The second experience was one week ago, when my right arm and then my neck twitched during meditation. I felt a sensation of being loved and remembered what it was like to feel loved by my mum (who passed away many years ago, when I was a teenager). The experience made me smile and lasted only a moment, then my mind drifted and I jolted upright. Things seemed suddenly ‘clearer’, ‘lighter’ but Then it faded and I came out of my meditation unexpectedly, jolted into full consciousness.

Since the second experience I have felt very tired and drained, with mild headaches and somewhat irritable. Of course I may just be unwell but I ceased meditating to try and recover.

I would be grateful if anyone thinks the above makes sense, or can make sense of it for me, or can give me any guidance around these experiences or how I should proceed?

Hi New Guy,

Surfing on the forum, i can across to your post and realized that i must answer your query. But instead of replying in your thread, i am taking the liberty to reply here in this thread. hope you do not mind.

You have nothing to worry about. Sometimes these things happen. Let them happen. You need not to pay any attention to all that and keep doing what you are doing and in the same way too.

This twitching can be because of two reasons. i can explain that further if you want but i do not think that is necessary for you to get into minute details as of now. That may distract you.

The only thing that you should know right now is whatever and in which way you are meditating, is working fine and getting results. So, forget about anything else and keep doing.

with love,
sanjay

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 53 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by zinnat

That is true but it is going to be quite long effort. There are no shortcuts.

With me, I could not initially quiet the mind and meditate easily .... in the beginning... as I was distracted by "teachers" offering "shortcuts".

I was fortunate indeed to have a primary teacher (and others) who many years ago pointed out that "there are no short cuts" and that it was "going to be quite long effort".

With my cerebral inclinations, it required a great effort and awesome interventions by my masterful teachers to get over the hump of cerebral intellectualism and the quest for "shortcuts".

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 57 EXTRACT:

Originally Posted by zinnat

lastly, though i cannot prove scientifically anything right now and especially on the net, but believe me i know the way how all this can be proved empirically and demonstrated publicly like other scientific theories. It requires some means (scientific instruments and their operators) which i cannot afford right now but i am working on that.

Are you aware that the Nobel Prize winning quantum physicist Schrodinger once explicitly stated that science will NOT be able to empirically "prove" certain things at the subtlest levels of the Reality and pointed to meditation as being the only way to ultimately "prove" some of those things? Even now, the scientific instruments and the observer himself have an impact on the experiments.

The theoretical unified force field of quantum physics may indeed be difficult to "prove" completely with scientific instruments.

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Are you aware that the Nobel Prize winning quantum physicist Schrodinger once explicitly stated that science will NOT be able to empirically "prove" certain things at the subtlest levels of the Reality and pointed to meditation as being the only way to ultimately "prove" some of those things? Even now, the scientific instruments and the observer himself have an impact on the experiments.

The theoretical unified force field of quantum physics may indeed be difficult to "prove" completely with scientific instruments.

And Max Planck (who won the Nobel Prize for Physics) has much to say on science and consciousness (I presume these particular quotes are not subject to copyright and so may be quoted as is):

*Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.

A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

All matter originates and exists only by virtue of a force which brings the particle of an atom to vibration and holds this most minute solar system of the atom together. We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter.

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.

Peace