Importance of stillness / meditation

[deLord]

Since Miss Hepburn asked me to open a new thread for this, I decided that it might be a good idea :)

I meditate twice daily with increasing duration for a few years now. Still being very easily distracted especially by thoughts. No ekaggata yet (btw 2 wiki articles?? Ekagrata <> Ekaggata)

1) Does anyone have any idea on why stillness is THAT important? For the rational mind this is not understandable. Especially when it comes to that enlightenment and siddhis are achieved by this method.

2) Maybe someone can give me advice on why it is worth investing many hours per day on sadhana instead of living an "ordinary" life.
How can I convince myself that meditation is worth doing?
I mean, I do meditate daily but right now, I just believe that it will lead somewhere beyond material bounds. No one has shown me. I have no idea whether it helps for telepathy, healing abilities, anything useful or permanent bliss.
It's not like muscle training where I can tell "yeah I can see my muscles growing BECAUSE OF the training".
With meditation, I do it based on blind belief which is something I usually don't like very much. I cannot tell whether it helps for anything - and this is after a few years of already doing it.
Without having reached enlightenment, how can anyone know that attaining enlightenment if far far better than "just" attaining a siddhi (story of the 2 brothers and the ferryman)? I imagine someone who never fell in love. How are you gonna describe to him what he misses? I think it's impossible. It's like describing colors to a (color-)blind.

3) I've still not completely come to terms with the duality of "do nothing - universe will do/give everything necessary" vs "you have to do some work / sadhana". So --- which one is it? Why not play computer all day? Or completey ignore the spiritual way; if nothing can be achieved but only given by grace or surrender (I do not yet completely understand this concept).

What do you think?

[lomax]

''Stillness speaks by Eckhart Tolle''

A good book with practical stuff to understand stillness.

People have different goals while meditate.Others want peace of mind,others use it for manifestation,etc.
Why to meditate?That's a good question.The most common and solid answer would be to ''meet with your inner source of guidance and knowledge''.

From that point,everyone should take his own path.

[Miss Hepburn]

Originally Posted by lomax

''Stillness speaks by Eckhart Tolle''

A good book with practical stuff to understand stillness.

People have different goals while meditate.Others want peace of mind,others use it for manifestation,etc.
Why to meditate?That's a good question.The most common and solid answer would be to ''meet with your inner source of guidance and knowledge''.

From that point,everyone should take his own path.

I agree...and esp the last line.

Why not stop meditation? And see how it goes? Are you content without it?
Then, stop. Stop trying if there's no benefit.

If you see no difference or benefit and you were my friend so we could talk -I might ask you what happens inside during meditation.
If you said, ''Only thoughts..I think about many things, I don't seem to reach
a place of real super stillness I hear about."
Then, I would say, "Oh, well then, you are trying to meditate.
But really are not meditating...in other words, you are
not quieting your mind and body and breathing to a
point of stillness most would not believe;
thus, not entering into a 'zone' of such wonder and beauty."

Much more could be said..but that's enough now.
Would me telling you that when you allow your thoughts to be stilled
and stay in this place for a long time it is wonderful - help you to continue?
I dunno.

The Universe or the laws of the Universe can be tested or tried ... do your nothing...
see what happens.

Do something - see what happens.
Do whichever you like.

Seeing is believing in my book.
Blind faith is ok ---knowing and experiencing for yourself is way better, imo.

[deLord]

Originally Posted by lomax

''Stillness speaks by Eckhart Tolle''

A good book with practical stuff to understand stillness.

People have different goals while meditate.Others want peace of mind,others use it for manifestation,etc.
Why to meditate?That's a good question.The most common and solid answer would be to ''meet with your inner source of guidance and knowledge''.

From that point,everyone should take his own path.

I heard that as an audiobook once or twice but it doesnt -if I recall correctly- state WHY stillness leads to these things.

@Miss Hepburn
If I put onto a scale a) how many hours I meditated and b) how often I had slightly blissful experiences and how long they lasted (seconds!), I must say that the effects are rather underwhelming. It's hard to see where the big advantage is supposed to lie if you never reached a state which can even easily be reached by *** for example. I'd like to have my turn on the ferryman story: "well, you invested 30 years@2h meditation each day? You fool, just take *** and get the effect instantly".
This is not to say that meditation is stupid. It comes from my lack of the blissful experience that so many report of during meditation.
If it weren't that important, I would not go by blind faith for such a long time. The least effect I am expecting though is an increased concentration but even that I don't really see yet.

For me, "How can I convince myself that meditation is worth doing?" is also very important, especially since I don't get proper effects.
But since it is my only straw right now, maybe I'll stick to it anyway

[Miss Hepburn]

(Oh, sorry - this is a child friendly forum...can't mention any illegal hallucinogens.) ;)

This is why stillness is imp in a nutshell to me...and has proven to be true.
Silence is where God dwells.
Stillness is where the Holy Spirit, by whatever name you like -
(and remember is represented as a dove for a reason) ...
is where it 'lights'.

When you invite a guest to your home, you prepare a room -
fresh sheets, flowers ---in stillness you are inviting the Divine Presence to come visit you
in that Secret Place (ref Psalm 91) within.

The sincerity in your quiet heart is like a flame to a moth.
Wait - desire an experience of the Divine,
(I do hesitate to say the word God cuz it often becomes an issue) or, say, your Higher Self.

It is just the way it is - what is Holy, let's say ...loves stillness, silence -
a place made ready.

Of course, you don't have to believe me.
But, you can see for yourself.

[Miss Hepburn]

Some may relate to this story paraphrased - by Paramahansa Yogananda.

A mother is busy in the kitchen - her little boy is crying in the other room.
She gives him a toy and he stops.
He cries again soon - she gives him some candy.
He's satisfied. This goes on a bit more.
When she realizes, 'Oh, only I will satisfy him, He wants me.'
And she picks him up.

Same with God.

Perhaps this helps? https://youtu.be/Ku8cCrdh4Ic

[FallingLeaves]

there is a power in stillness that can't be found while running around trying to get things. Running around trying to attain stillness isn't the same as simply being still, either.

you asked, should I use a lot of effort, as some say? Or do nothing at all, as others would say? I noticed that what you didn't ask is 'what do i want to do here'? You sorta cared for the 'best' answer to get what you think you want, more than you cared for your own feelings on the matter.

You are in a realm where it is exceedingly difficult to achieve goals. That is why some have said you should work very hard for them, and others have said you should just sit and wait for them to be handed to you. But no matter what you do there are no guarantees as to how far you will get. Some people giver up sooner than others do and that is about all I know about it.

At some point I found the beauty in understanding I wasn't going to have what I want. Because once I knew I couldn't have things, I knew I didn't have to keep maintaining all the 'right' behaviors that people were selling me on to try and get them. What a relief to give that up! And that let me come back around to the question, not what others say I should do to get what others say I should have, but who do I want to be and what do I want to do? Priceless!

[Starman]

deLord, In my opinion the human mind is incapable of actually understanding the dynamics of meditation, nor in my opinion can the human mind appreciate meditation. Now our heart is another thing. The joy of meditation comes from the core of our being and that is what we often call “our heart.”

There are lots of people who start a meditation practice and then they quite doing meditation because they feel they are not getting anything from it. Many years ago when I was deciding to learn how to meditate, a friend told me “do not have any expectations. If you are taught how to meditate, just do it.” I took that advice and I am glad I did. Sometimes analysis and expectations can get in the way of savoring a deep meditative experience.

The meditation experience will never be what we imaged or think it should be. The experience transcends mental activity, nonetheless, your mind will want to get involved in your meditation practice. The practice of meditation is a practice of self mastery. Primarily you learn how to master your thinking processes. You control your thoughts instead of letting your thoughts control you. A meditation practice requires steadfast trust in the practice process even if you do not know what that process is. It has nothing to do with reasoning or logic.

I have been doing meditation for more than 40-years, and my motivation for meditating has changed over the years. Today I say I meditate to remain centered and sane but that is not how it began. Meditation allows me to see clearer, and I feel guided through life by something deeper that is within me. It takes practice, mainly learning how to let go on deeper and deeper levels. Stillness allows us to go deeper within our own being. There is a Bible verse that says “Be still and know that I am God.” I think they are referring to being still inside.

The thing that really motivates me is what Socrates famously said, “Know Thyself." This is now the cornerstone of my life. To know myself on every level. Meditation helps me to do that. There is nothing wrong with living and ordinary life and not doing meditation. Meditation is thousands of years old; but it is not for everyone. It used to be only for the clergy of various religions but now it is available to the general public.

Monks may take a vow of silence for a period of time; that is a form of meditation. Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, Islamic, and Hindu ministers, priests, and other clergy practice meditation. Monks may take a vow of silence for a period of time; that is a form of meditation. Meditation is not new to humanity but it is rather new to the general public, although the general public in India and parts of Asia have long been familiar with meditation. There are lots of “holy” books from different religions that say, “the Kingdom of Heaven is within you.”

Aother phrase for inner silence is inner peace.

[Unseeking Seeker]

Stillness, meditation, silence ... therein, we exit self imposed hypnotic stupor.

Silence is our innate being-ness, omnipresent and all pervading, most immediate, ever present. On the other hand, our choice to be in trance, bemused by images and forms, is akin to watching a movie, where we are lost in the flow, identifying with the characters on the screen, beginning with the mistaken belief that we are only this mind body entity.

As such, we may like to consider the inconvenient possibility that as long as we are thinking, we are dreaming, driven by instinct, urges, desires, fears of lower mind. In silence or meditation, the most fundamental shift which happens is that there is no identity, no personality or ego* (*controversial word). That unbound awareness free of even memory imagery, free of seeking, anticipation etc ... we are that.

As such, in my view, we do not have to do anything, save abide in restful thought rested silence, as our flowing orientation. Of course, when we are called upon by life to act, we employ thought, like an instrument.

As for spiritual attainment, it is again a contradiction. Who is the separate entity aspiring to become this or that? Other than aligning cognitive head with loving heart, nothing need be done.

My take on this.