Ego, Awareness, Wisdom

[Unseeking Seeker]

Let us attempt then to understand why we would wish to suffer:

The entity (us) who is mind-body centric, say causes harm to someone in pursuit of self-serving inclination. Upon death of body, in the life review that follows, he sees from the fulcrum of love and recognises that he has done wrong. Here, God does not judge, the soul judges itself and decides to return to repay the debt of love owed and to suffer in the same way as the suffering he had caused.

Now, this choice to suffer is actually unnecessary provided identity is dropped. But that’s the Catch22 situation ~ the soul is as yet in delusion, feeling separate from source and needs to learn life lessons repeatedly until all traces of identity disappear, melding with, merging with God or let us say, universal consciousness.

Once Self is realised, there is no identity but until then, we act as a separate entity. That’s also alright if we heed voice of truth that speaks as conscience. But we do not. Hence we err.

What is regret, remorse? We wish to set right the wrong-doing we did. Penance. Reworded, we choose to suffer.

Our need for suffering ends, then suffering ends … it is our choice really. If love is our flagship, all is well. We need to voluntarily choose it, however.

[JustBe]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Our need for suffering ends, then suffering ends … it is our choice really. If love is our flagship, all is well. We need to voluntarily choose it, however.

My op was initiating the concept that we through others suffering, that may be foreign to us, can deepen into the awareness of suffering as part of our own.

It’s very difficult to expect those deep in suffering to grasp the concept of love and understanding and change in the way you’re describing, until one is self realised. The ignorance, conditioning and suffering is very real to the nature of what is, as they perceive and experience.

So in myself I see it’s not about others choice but my choice through understanding and my own realisations, to be able to choose. It’s only through insights that one is able to choose differently.

My liberation from suffering cannot decide how another’s process and choice comes into realisation. Who is to say their life in this life is to have that choice?

Of course I’m not saying it’s impossible, it’s potential. But we cannot know how that potential plays out. So I am only left with myself in this awareness..

[TheDruid-3X3]

This Thread's Title is a Triad that reminded me of a 3X3 Triad Of Wisdom Poem I wrote many years ago. It was one of my Very First Triad of Wisdom Poems written in April of 2006.

It goes:

The Emotions That Come From The Belief That Humanity Is Created In A Godlike Image:
- Egotism,
- Vanity,
- And Greed.

Why Humanity Declared Itself A Godlike Image:
- Because Of Mankind Harnessing The Power of Plants,
- Domesticating Farming Animals,
- And Developing Writing.

Technologies Developed In Order To Prove Mankind As Created In A Godlike Image:
- Metal Smithing,
- Firearms,
- And The Harnessing of Electricity.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When One Is Egotistical:
- One Then Becomes A Danger To Others,
- One Becomes A Poor Sport,
- And One Then Tends To Ignore Good Advice.

When One Has Vanity:
- You Start Thinking Your Personal Appearance Becomes Most Important,
- You Start Considering Yourself The Center Of The Universe,
- And You Start Taking Personal Criticisms Too Negatively.

When One Has Greed:
- You Take From Nature More Than You Need,
- You Then Become Ruthless In Your Business Practices,
- And You Become Part Of Humanity's Problems Instead Of A Solution.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Damage Caused By A Lifeforms Who Believe Themselves Created In A Godlike Image:
- Mass Extinctions Of Other Animals,
- The Destruction Of Natural Ecosystems Of The Earth,
- And The Weakening Of The Atmosphere's Ozone Layer.

In Order For Humanity To Become Back To Being One With Nature:
- We Must Teach Our Children To Respect Nature,
- Endeavor To Gain Environmental Wisdom,
- And Plant New Forests.

To Once Again Become Harmonious With Nature One Must:
- Live By The Wiccan Reed Of Being Of Free Will But Harming None,
- Celebrating The Eight Harvest Festivals.
- And Having Reverence For The Four Sacred Elements.


3X3

[Unseeking Seeker]

In my understanding, there are no ‘others’, all that is, is one. The individuated aspects of the one, descend and ascend, separate and unite, conceal and reveal, like a pulse, a heartbeat, like the waves, that seems separate in slow motion, in linear time.

About being made in God’s image, I hold this as valid but for the true us* (*Self or let’s say soul even), not body. The Self is an ocean of soft white, living light, self-existent, renewing itself within itself, complete and in ineffable peace in singularity. The entity-identity is a bubble of illusion in duality, non-existent.

Please pardon me if my posts seem to deflect focus from the op

[Catsquotl]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Let us attempt then to understand why we would wish to suffer:

Why though. I mean from the point of view that people choose to be free from suffering in the sense that the Buddha and many before and after him sought such liberation don't you think it adds to the suffering of those that are bound in samsara, forgot where they came from and are told they chose their suffering themselves?

In my view. Ego like Soul is a construct. soul just encompasses more, identifies with a larger portion of God, Self, ALL that is...

Awareness and identification is key to this understanding In my opinion.

Wisdom I guess is the discernment to realize what's what and what's called for at any given time.

The op talk about the ego as judge,
I think soul judges just as much. Hence the need to judge himself based on the actions of some ego that happened to emerge from consciousness without a clue as to the origin of it's being.

Writing that seems just as silly as the ego making it's judgements. In the end, neither ego or soul are real..

2cts worth of my current understanding...

[Unseeking Seeker]

Yes Cats ~ however, if the truth is known to mind to start with, pure intent can effortlessly invoke the knowing in depths of silence. Of course, the knowing must resonate for this to work. Saves time.

[Catsquotl]

Originally Posted by Unseeking Seeker

Yes Cats ~ however, if the truth is known to mind to start with, pure intent can effortlessly invoke the knowing in depths of silence. Of course, the knowing must resonate for this to work. Saves time.

Well

[iamthat]

Originally Posted by Catsquotl

... when people choose to be free from suffering in the sense that the Buddha and many before and after him sought such liberation don't you think it adds to the suffering of those that are bound in samsara, forgot where they came from and are told they chose their suffering themselves? ... In the end, neither ego or soul are real..

But what do we mean by terms such as ego and soul?

For me, Soul is synonymous with Consciousness, the Consciousness which gives life to this body and gazes out through the eyes. This Consciousness is real because it is lasting, the silent Witness to daily existence.

When Consciousness in human form identifies with the personality and the body then ego arises. This ego is the small separate sense of self. Because this sense of self is small and separate it seeks to defend itself, it seeks to protect itself, it judges other small separate selves based on its own limitations, it wants to be seen as special.

When Consciousness in human form ceases to identify with the personality and the body then ego disappears. In the absence of ego there is no need to defend the personality, there is no need for the personality to judge others, there is no need for the personality to be seen as anyone special.

Because personality is not an identity, personality is just a collection of habitual patterns and behaviours.

When Consciousness identifies as a small separate self then there is suffering, because Consciousness identifies with that which has no lasting existence.

When Consciousness ceases to identify as a small separate self then there is peace, because whatever happens to the personality and body does not affect Consciousness.

The spiritual journey is the journey of Consciousness, the journey from Consciousness identifying with personality to Consciousness identifying with itself. We do not alleviate the suffering of others by perpetuating our own suffering.

Just my perspective.

Peace

[Catsquotl]

You are right.

I think I posed the question once what exactly soul is. The prevailing idea seemed to be that it is something that is identifiable as a separate entity. That will eternally be identifiable as a clear distinct part of the whole.

Personally I don't believe that anymore than the entity that is known as Catsquotl or Eelco is forever identifiable. Of course when this 3d body dies that process of identification will indefinably end.

Somehow the prevailing idea is that soul is eternal. From what I understand of Dhamma or enlightenment is that when entering mahaparanibanna every identity will stop and just the whole will be. Which led me to conclude that soul is not any form of identifiable part of a whole. And thus must be some form of self identification, much like the ego. Which means it ,like the ego end unlike Nibanna, is impermanent and thus not-self