John 3:16a

Molearner · #1 03-01-2023, 04:08 PM

“For God so loved the world that….” How would we finish this verse if we were asked to finish it ? It occurred to me that perhaps we could say “that he created us so that love might exist”. Love cannot exist without one who loves and one who is loved. It requires reciprocity. Is this a dilemma for our concepts of non duality ? For me it is a short jump to answering the age old question of “what is our purpose in life ?” Perhaps our purpose in the most basic sense is to love so that life can, indeed, be eternal. Any thoughts ?

sky · #2 03-01-2023, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molearner

Love cannot exist without one who loves and one who is loved. It requires reciprocity. Any thoughts ?

Why ?

Molearner · #3 03-01-2023, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky

Why ?

Sky,

Why ask ? Because a curious mind wants to know what others think…if they think….:). In regards to love…..does it not require some other to love ? Does love of self move the needle ? We know the Pharisee loved himself…..is that the standard ?

sky · #4 03-01-2023, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Molearner

Sky,
In regards to love…..does it not require some other to love ? Does love of self move the needle ? We know the Pharisee loved himself…..is that the standard ?

We should love ourselves unconditionally first to be able to love others, true love does not require another individual for its fulfillment or expression. It starts with love of self and then it radiates out to others.... Imo only

You asked why I asked.... You asked ' Any thoughts'

innerlight · #5 03-01-2023, 08:43 PM

Well, what is love? Is love an energy, or is it an emotion? If it's an energy, did it always exist? If it's an emotion, when, or how was it created? There is no mention of when, from a biblical standpoint, that love existed, unlike what they say of the word.

So, if it's something that was created, then it follows suit, that it was created by a dualistic existence. Which could mean love and also hate were created at the same time. Which could also say that God isn't only love, that God could also be jealous and angry and vengeful.

If it was created, then the creator would certainly want to understand what this creation is, and what this creation isn't. Which then could give rise to the idea that the creator loved its creation so much, but needed to understand what that meant. And the only way to know that would be to sacrifice himself for his creations. Showing us, that he is willing to put us over himself, and that he would die to protect and love us.

And how many humans are willing to do the same?

Molearner · #6 03-01-2023, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerlight

. Which then could give rise to the idea that the creator loved its creation so much, but needed to understand what that meant. And the only way to know that would be to sacrifice himself for his creations. Showing us, that he is willing to put us over himself, and that he would die to protect and love us. ?

Inner light,

Now this is interesting…..thanks. Biblically there are 2 main definitions of God….namely God is Spirit and God is love. If one gives credence to this then it is problematic to believe that God became love if that was his very essence. The sacrifice or willingness to sacrifice seems to be a given….witness Jesus. Sometimes we just have to let the mystery be….it can be beyond our understanding.

innerlight · #7 03-01-2023, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky

We should love ourselves unconditionally first to be able to love others, true love does not require another individual for its fulfillment or expression. It starts with love of self and then it radiates out to others.... Imo only

Not to be that guy, but by your own logic it does. True, implies that there is a counter argument that says it's not true. Unconditional implies that there is a state of condition. Each state can only exist if there is something that makes it so. Otherwise it's just love. You can't love yourself unconditionally without knowing conditional love. Which also reinforces the OP's post.

innerlight · #8 03-01-2023, 10:09 PM

Both of those statements, would imply there is a counter argument. So if God is spirit, then something has to be not spirit.

I think it is possible that those were true, God is spirit AND love. But, a world had to exist to understand what that meant. I think it would be more accurate to just say that GOD is that I am. Or, that God is. Everything else became creations to understand what God was fully. Why, that is? Fun, perhaps. And if that is the case, then The Word also could have been a creation of spirit, God, I am. To better know what wasn't The Word.

But, then, if everything came from God, then is it not also true to surmise that everything IS God?

sky · #9 04-01-2023, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innerlight

Not to be that guy, but by your own logic it does. You can't love yourself unconditionally without knowing conditional love. Which also reinforces the OP's post.

Imo only, unconditional love is neutral and has no opposite so you can love yourself unconditionally without knowing conditional love.....

Molearner · #10 04-01-2023, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky

We should love ourselves unconditionally first to be able to love others, true love does not require another individual for its fulfillment or expression. It starts with love of self and then it radiates out to others.... '

Sky,

Perhaps this is accepted by philosophies other than Christianity but it cannot be accepted by Christianity. 1 John 4:19…..”We love because he first loved us.” God is the source of love not our self. Self is but a conduit for love that originates with and proceeds from God. Your statement actually makes all love conditional…..namely that you must first love your self unconditionally before you can love others. The self is inheritantly corrupt….”for all have sinned”….for those that accept this perhaps this would be a condition that prevents them from loving themselves unconditionally. Love is powerful…..it can penetrate one’s self constructed armor(the failure to love yourself unconditionally) and be experienced by you. It is this experience of love, however small it might be, that enables you to love others.

There are times in life when we get to have the exact experience that God had at creation. When we first hold our newborn child we can look at our creation and ‘see that it is good’. This is pure love….despite any ‘conditions’……..