Why I'm not a Taoist

[Ewwerrin]

Lao Tzu was also a highly evolved being, like Jesus, and Buddha, and Mohammend and many other beings. It's simply not easy to understand all of it. Especially considering how many messengers and teachers there currently are, and even they cannot really teach to everyone or anyone everything.

Often people also find some resonance and they may even have moments in their life of great clarity, and then it is lost again. The enlightenment is of a high frequency, and it's not easy to stay in those high frequencies. And one cannot perceive what one is not the vibration/frequency of. Also because it is so easy that most humans cannot find the frequency of its immense ease and power that is so highly and finely tuned and callibrated to such precision on all levels of our being.

The teachings were of their time. And there will always come more teachers who will confirm the teachers of old. And help people reach greater understanding.

Even the greatest teachers that are alife today can at most guide us, and give us options to consider choosing, ideas to consider. Being around them and paying attention to them, can cause energetic activations within our own being to occur, but it woulden't be much different from being in nature. And finding the peace and union with nature from within and so too from without, it can be reflected, based on what we do with our own consciousness.

These are very superficial things. And few people really take it all the way home. It's always been that way, tho it may change, but certainly not soon. But the times are indicating that the spiritual soul of many beings are awakening on the planet. But that will not result in big progress, quickly.

Especially in our current day and age of our world, the forgetfulness of human beings is at the highest it's ever been, and yet there are beings who've entered the most immense state of rememberance and clarity of knowingness and attunement to divine knowledge. But they are few. And will remain that way still for a while.

The understanding of all the old teachings and teachers will come. But not soon. Not for the whole world, not soon. There are just many beings awakening today, and these are often already on their mission towards that world rememberance. And they cannot teach publicly to the whole world, because that is not their purpose/job. People can follow them, but it woulden't benefit them nor those who they follow. The collective is far from united, but the uniting is happening for sure. Very slowly, seemingly, but steadily. Always in the background to many people who may not even be part of that reality altogether. And will never even know about it.

So if you follow any one teachings, you may find tiny little bread crumbs of recovered information, that will always be incomplete, for still a long while. And those who do the activations around the planet also can only help people a little bit here and there as best they can.

It is simply not popular. People are spiritually underdeveloped. Even if one finds a way to break through into great realisation, it will always be very fractured and incomplete. Not to mention, an enlightened world will also be incomplete. Not to downplay it, for it is what we all seek. IT is the point we're reaching for where all people can enjoy the journey. That never ends. And most will always say that journey cannot even begin, untill one reaches enlightenment.

So anyone who says this or that teaching or this or that teacher, I would simply always point them back to their own inner being. A teacher can only at best help one reflect on their own being, and find the teachings as a permission slip to activate themselves and find their own inner connection to their own greater non-physical consciousness, which always holds all of that knowledge and clear knowing, they seek. Without that relativity of resonance, one cannot gather enough information to be of any benefit. For one would have no way of recognizing their own remembering. Feeling it. Noticing it. Realising it. On all levels of their being.

And those who find great activation and rememberance, know that it is always gonna be relative and temporary and never permanent, in physical reality. And that also means that the option to remember will always be there. For that is what everything is relative around. It is at the Source of all of our being. And it is either less or more relative. The less relative it is, the more the entire world will reflect that knowing, in alignment and harmony with the greater knowing of all of our greater being. And the journey will always continue to expand from there.

Most people look for information, because they are not happy with their life. That will only yield the result of continuing to not be happy with their life. It is really the intention that is everything. One's intention can either be aligned with their greater knowing or not. And if it is not, then no amount of intending will result in any pleasing result. Neither meaningful and relevant. But always relative. To remind one that their true intention can be found, from within, and so too from without. And if that intention is in alignment, no amount of result will ever be able to reflect anything that is more valuable than the alignment itself. And what it feels like to be tapped in, tuned in and turned on, to Source Energy. To live in full harmony and alignment with their true purpose of their being on all levels of their being.

The joy of that is what life is all about. To enjoy the never ending journey of being who you truely are. In full evermore natural and effortless greater allowed realisation of all that is being and becoming evermore here and now, where and when all that exists exists and is being evermore naturally and effortlessly and extatically here and now. Regardless of any and all conditions, under any and all conditions, unconditionally, energy motionally, emotionally, in total alignment and greater allowed realisation of all that is being and becoming evermore here and now.

It is the kind of high consciousness that is worth being aware of, that is enjoyable to grow in the awareness of it. It is the kind of consciousness that is so attuned to the greater truth of our eternal being, that they can look at the greatest lie, and see only truth, to the extend of transforming and healing every thing they look at. The awareness that knows no bounds, and sustains all things. The presence of the perfectly inseperable existence that is perfectly infinite, on all levels of our being. And knows all of it, and also bees all of it. It is the greatest power there is, that excersizes the least amount of effort, it does nothing and leaves nothing undone. It is the perfection of all that exists. As all is one and one is all.

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by Molearner

Ayar415,
You have trouble understanding different POV’s…..

Do you mean to say that I have trouble accepting a different point of view? I understand you perfectly but reject your propositions. You believe in spirits. I don't. The Tao Te Ching that I read, deals with reality, not spirits.

The Chinese have a living civilization, and it is the only one in the world that has endured while all others are dead. It is their ancient philosophy that has kept them going in this world, this existence of the intellect derived from the five senses. Learning how to be a human being is the central focus of Chinese thought.

Salvation for mankind is not through "gnosis", a personal escape from reality into the realm of spirits. Let's say you make it. What about humanity that encompasses not just people but all that exist?

[Molearner]

Originally Posted by ayar415

You believe in spirits. I don't.
The Chinese have a living civilization, and it is the only one in the world that has endured while all others are dead.
What about humanity that encompasses not just people but all that exist?

Ayar415,

Therein lies the problem. This being the Spiritual Forums many that come here accept the reality of the spiritual world while also accepting the reality of the material world.

Not sure if you are suggesting that the Chinese are the exemplary civilization ? And linking it somehow with humanitarian endeavors……

The big tent has room for everyone……materialists, atheists, spiritualists, Christians and a myriad of others…..there will always be a divergence of opinion.

[Still_Waters]

Originally Posted by sky123

Unless our thoughts come from the same ' Root ' of His words we'll find it hard to understand and therefore practice.

That is exactly the point. One has to come from the same "Root" as the speaker in order to really "understand".

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 107 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by sentient

I meant, unfortunately you did not experience or witness the master you spent 3 hours with (in complete and utter silence without words) …… also teach with words and actions.

Mere ‘stopping thinking’ cannot do the unbarring, because it is a dimensional shift, although non-thought is an aid which can potentially enable the shift.

I agree completely with what you just wrote and I am getting concerned that I may be getting too "agreeable". LOL I am not normally this agreeable. LOL

Your points are indeed RIGHT ON TARGET !

It would indeed have been nice if I had been able to spend more time with that Taoist master in Chengdu China who communicated in complete and utter silence. I too would have liked to observe his words and actions more closely over an extended period of time. However, I consider myself fortunate to have at least spent those three still-treasured hours with him. With my own teacher, however, I was fortunate in every sense of the word to observe her over a period of 30+ years and I still marvel at her extraordinary wisdom and integrity in thought, word, and deed.


Your other point is also very very important. "Mere ‘stopping thinking’ cannot do the unbarring, because it is a dimensional shift, although non-thought is an aid which can potentially enable the shift". Too many people seem to think that "merely stopping thinking" is sufficient but you correctly put that in the proper perspective by noting that a dimension shift is necessary though "stopping thinking" can potentially facilitate that dimension shift. "Stopping thinking" is definitely not sufficient as you wisely pointed out.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 111 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Ewwerrin

There are just many beings awakening today, and these are often already on their mission towards that world remembrance. And they cannot teach publicly to the whole world, because that is not their purpose/job.

So anyone who says this or that teaching or this or that teacher, I would simply always point them back to their own inner being.

That was a very long but VERY INSIGHTFUL post with so many good points that I hope I don't get myself in trouble for quoting so much above even though it is just a very small part of your very lengthy post.

There are indeed many people, whom I call either "hidden masters" or "awakening masters" who, as you noted, do not teach publicly but are surprisingly readily available to sincere seekers. I have learned more from them than virtually any of the publicly acclaimed teachers who are more focused on the masses. They just appear ... and often in the most unlikely places.

While there are indeed people who point you to a particular teacher or teaching, that may be helpful for a while. Eventually, however, as you also duly noted, the best teachers "point them back to their own inner being" and thus make them "lights unto themselves", as the Buddha taught.


Most people seek information since they are unhappy with life. Dissatisfaction with life can actually be a good thing in that it may serve as a catalyst to seek out the true nature of the Reality. That unhappiness and/or dissatisfaction with life can really move things in a very appropriate direction.

Since this is a Taoist thread, your last point is a fitting climax to your post in that "the greatest power there is, that exercises the least amount of effort, it does nothing and leaves nothing undone". That almost sounds like Lao Tzu communicating through your words.

Tao 37 (beginning):

"Eternal Tao doesn't do anything
yet it leaves nothing undone."

Summary Statement: AWESOME POST even if it was a tad long.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 109 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by ayar415

Even "gnosis", which is linked to the spirit (Molearner's claim) is a product of the intellect (espisteme). After all, how is he able to make such an assertion if he didn't discover it in some book or listened to someone who expounded this in the first place?

That post was very revealing in that it gives a very important insight into something that you may never have experienced. My position is consistent with Molearner's in that there is indeed a "gnosis" that is NOT a product of intellect and, contrary to your position, it is indeed something that one "didn't discover it in some book or listened to someone who expounded this in the first place".

Are you saying that you have never had what many call "gnosis" or "pure intuition" or something along those lines where someone knows without thinking things that are verifiable and beyond the scope of the five senses and beyond even intellect? Have you never had even a glimpse of the expanded consciousness that Jung calls the collective unconsciousness? If not, then I can fully understand your skepticism especially since I once relied strongly on intellect but finally went past that via some powerful mind-boggling interventions by my spiritual mentor.

This was a very revealing, excellent post stating your perspective very clearly.

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

Are you saying that you have never had what many call "gnosis" or "pure intuition" or something along those lines where someone knows without thinking things that are verifiable and beyond the scope of the five senses and beyond even intellect? Have you never had even a glimpse of the expanded consciousness that Jung calls the collective unconsciousness? If not, then I can fully understand your skepticism especially since I once relied strongly on intellect but finally went past that via some powerful mind-boggling interventions by my spiritual mentor.

The scope of the 5 senses is a sensory perception that can detect things we can touch, taste, see, hear, and smell. The intellect (i.e. mind or consciousness) gives form to those perceivable things.

Therefore, what we (humanity) "see" (i.e. can perceive as well as imagine) is what we get (existential reality). What you (and Molearner) are positing is that "gnosis" is not of existential reality because it is not of the human mind or consciousness. But you and Molearner, presumably humans, have gotten it (gnosis). Unless you can clear up the confusion I see here, I must conclude that you are speaking out from both sides of your mouth.

Of course, I have had gnosis - that moment of instantaneous enlightenment - many times about various things - WITHIN - consciousness, and I could grapple with the new way of perceiving those things with the intellect. As such, I can share it like the invention of the wheel with anyone who would listen and can benefit from.

With all due respect, I am not skeptical of you and Molearner and Jung. I know you are all wrong. Jung is dead but you are not. You can still examine your belief and lay it out for brutal and honest inquiry. Conversely, if I had invented the wheel, you can test it all you want and use it to move a heavy load easily if you like.

If you have a spiritual mentor, then your gnosis is not the real deal. Neither is your mentor. He talked, didn't he? By your stubborn reckoning of Chapter 56, he is a sure-fire dud.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 118 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by ayar415

Of course, I have had gnosis - that moment of instantaneous enlightenment - many times about various things - WITHIN - consciousness

When you had those moments of gnosis and/or instant enlightenment, were any of them beyond the realm of the 5 senses and not related to something that you had previously heard or read?

[ayar415]

Originally Posted by Still_Waters

When you had those moments of gnosis and/or instant enlightenment, were any of them beyond the realm of the 5 senses and not related to something that you had previously heard or read?

All those moments of gnosis were NOT related to something that I had previously heard of or read about.

None of them (gnoses) were beyond the realm of the 5 senses.

One of them was the realization of the nature of reality: it is consciousness itself. We are that consciousness given form by the intellect through the 5 senses.

The Tao Te Ching is a critique of consciousness: the human mind as-is. My gnosis was that it is conditioned by false premises. Case in point: you, the individual human being, are separate from me, in an objective reality (false). By putting it in words, it becomes episteme. If you are curious, we can check it out. I won't tell you that I cannot talk about it, and you have to get that gnosis yourself. This would be so lame.

J. Krishnamurti had a gnosis about the nature of the human consciousness. He talked about it ad nauseam with anyone who approached him. David Bohm discussed it with him for decades in vain. The theoretical physicist - with his formidable intellect - just couldn't grasp Krishnamurti's gnosis. Was Krishnamurti talking about something beyond the realm of the 5 senses? Certainly not. He was talking about the corrupted state of the human mind.