The Eightfold Path - The Fourth Noble Truth

Originally Posted by Gem

Gotama Buddha was only teaching about the cause of suffering and how to to end it. In principle it's simple, craving is the cause, and ceasing to crave is the solution. In reality that is highly nuanced, and isn't as easy as it sounds. Hence he said meditation is free from aversion and craving in the world.

That's it. That's what I say too Gem. Craving is the cause of suffering.

Even craving for 'meditation', craving for 'benefits', craving for 'purification', 'craving' for 'helping others' - where I don't know 'who am I' & 'who they are' - is full of bondage and attachment, and just ends up in sufferings.

All cravings has to end, that's what Buddha points out. Only then Nirvana. Why purification? To purify what? Who purifies?

If everything is Anithya - what to purify, if that too is temporary.

Ending of craving for anything - comes thought-less 'meditation'. Even 'craving' for purification/benefits/helping others, have to end - then that's meditation, and one attains Nirvana.

And so, Buddha taught renunciation. To renounce everything. Every cravings. Every desires. Including helping/benefits/materials/etc.. All these 'benefits/helpingpurify' is only misunderstanding and feeds attachment and again sufferings.

Nirvana - is THE and only GOAL.

Originally Posted by Gem

Life doesn't end with cessation, and without personal volitional will, the purification which clears the way for the love of the universe to flow through you and be expressed in all facets of your life is enabled. I believe my actions are harmless and beneficial, but I'm really not concerned with it.

Every action has two sides. Even to help others, harm is done to another one. Even to give food, you have to stop it for another - as there is scarcity.

Every help done, there is a hidden harm done to another.

Any action, which looks benefit to one, acts as 'harm' to another. So, more wholesome clear view has to be gained - and it happens only in finding out 'who they are', 'what is all this', 'why actions has two sides', 'why not life is unlimited', 'who am I doing all this' 'why did Buddha said - Shunyam/anithya/dhukkam' 'Even in his eye, who looks very enlightened - sees only Dhukka in world and couldn't change it?'

Love for 'universe', where the universe itself 'what' and 'unknown', is an attachment - and only sufferings. Everything here is Anithya. Even if you made the Universe very lovable, it will change in Time. Not permanent. Any Love/purification towards 'temporary' causes sufferings.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Viswa

Nope sky. Doctrine always says "Right view and Right understanding". In eight fold path, nothing is said as to "benefit" and "help others"

'Monks, go and travel around for the welfare of the multitudes, for the happiness of the multitudes, out of sympathy for the world, for the benefit, welfare, and happiness of humans.'
The Buddha....

Originally Posted by Gem

At the essence of Buddhism, it's the cessation of will which ends the perpetuation of self in the cause and effect cycle of kamma. Life doesn't end with cessation, and without personal volitional will, the purification which clears the way for the love of the universe to flow through you and be expressed in all facets of your life is enabled I suggest meditation is way of ceasing volition and enabling the purification. It certainly can be.

Yes. It certainly can be. But it is temporary. It won't last eternally. And so, it causes sufferings too.

So, cease will. Even love to universe, to purify it, is also will. Love to universe, is also Kamma. It won't put an end to rebirth, and keep on bound to Kamma, and keep on trying to love the universe, where it may be achieved brought peace, but even after that peace, you will see again the domination of 'rajasic and tamasic', and again there will be a need of 'purification' and 'love', and you will die in vain, and you born again and try to 'purify' and 'love' and continue many lives, and achieve it, and again 'hate/greed' grows in universe in front of your eyes, and again you suffer.

Only at that time, you will understand the real meaning of "Ending of Cravings on everything - including Love/purification/benefits/others".
Or
By reading this itself?????

Think about it.

Not only there is Love for Universe, there is also hate/greed in THE FLOW.

WHat are 'benefits'? 'Benefits' are nothing but pleasure, a reward. It is a craving achieved. Desire succeeded. What is 'help'? Help is nothing but to have a smooth/non-struggling life, by giving whatever desired by another. So, list out all the 'benefits' given, which people 'desire/crave' from you. Why do they 'crave' for benefits from 'you'?

WHat to do they 'crave' as benefit? Food? Shelter? Love? Comfort? Nothing but a security for their Life, so to live peacefully?

The all above 'cravings' as 'benefits', is all domination of 'rajasic and tamasic', and 'craving' to 'satisfy' their 'cravings' in name of 'benefits', is a very big attachment. And, why only benefit to humanity? WHy not to small living beings too? WHy not to mosquitoes? Why not to 'viruses/bacterias'? Why not to germs? They are all part of World and has 'life', so why harming them and have to be loved and cared. Right?

Find out 'who they are', what is this universe', 'why life is limited', 'why there is both love & greed', 'why benefit to one has hidden harm to another', 'who am I'.

RIGHT UNDERSTANDING. Without it, everything is craving/attachment.

Nirvana......

Peace.

[Gem]

Originally Posted by Viswa

Any action, which looks benefit to one, acts as 'harm' to another.

I'm personally not very interested in helping anyone, but let's hypothetically say I saw an old lady standing at the bottom of the stairs with a large suitcase. I'd carry it up the stairs for her, which is helpful and no harm done.

sees only Dhukka in world and couldn't change it?'

Of course, there isn't really much point doing anything to resolve suffering in the sense that your aversion toward what's happening is a motive that actually generates suffering. The notions of metta and generosity in Buddhist philosophy are bit more nuanced...

Love for 'universe'

Not 'for'. 'Of'.

Everything here is Anithya.

I don't know what that is.

Even if you made the Universe very lovable, it will change in Time.

The way the universe is doesn't matter, and this has nothing to do withe condition anyone wants. It is just 'as it is'.

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm personally not very interested in helping anyone, but let's hypothetically say I saw an old lady standing at the bottom of the stairs with a large suitcase. I'd carry it up the stairs for her, which is helpful and no harm done.

So, you are giving them 'security', and from this 'security' you do a harm in making them 'crave' for 'more people' to help them like you did.

You increase their craving in this way. And this security, makes them 'want more'.

If they ask for help, do it. No problem. But it has two sides. Both benefit and harm. There is not ONLY benefit there. So, don't 'crave' for helping people. Whatever happens, let it happen. I only ask to stop craving. Not stop actions. Every happening has two sides.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm personally not very interested in helping anyone,

You have mentioned many times that you do Voluntary work in the Ashram you attend, is that not helping others ?

[Joe Mc]

Deleted.>>>>>>

Originally Posted by Gem

Of course, there isn't really much point doing anything to resolve suffering in the sense that your aversion toward what's happening is a motive that actually generates suffering.

Nope. I don't have aversion toward it. But I don't crave for it. If people want to help, and if people want to be helped, let it be. I don't have anything to do about it.

All those needs/help/benefits asked/done, is not me/they/it. It is all the play of three gunas. I don't have aversion, and no craving either.

Even I too help people when situation happens to be. But, I don't crave for it. And that help I do, I knew that is only 'security', both benefit and harm, and it's not that 'I' help or 'they' get helped, but Rajasic guna helps the 'need' of Tamasic guna, and I just witness those all. I have nothing to do/run away.

This what, Janaka and Arjuna are preached. No attachment towards any action, even help/love/benefit. Action in Inaction and Ination in action. I am not the doer. No second. Do duty for duty's sake. No attachment to results. Many and many.

Like "Love of Universe", there is also "Greed/Hate of Universe".

[sky]

Originally Posted by Viswa

If they ask for help, do it. No problem. But it has two sides. Both benefit and harm. There is not ONLY benefit there. So, don't 'crave' for helping people. Whatever happens, let it happen. I only ask to stop craving. Not stop actions.

From my understanding The Buddha didn't 'Crave' to spend His entire life helping others, He just acted on His natural compassion for all sentient beings and showed the way through His teachings to alleviate suffering in the World....