The Eightfold Path - The Fourth Noble Truth

Originally Posted by sky

It must be a very heavy burden to carry when you see people who do not want to know the 'Truth'

Nope sky. That's not the burden. People want to know 'truth' or not, that's of no problem.

But, in the name of "God" or "Spirituality" or "Vedanta", they seek 'experiences' and bondage towards "Universe and body and powers and peaceful Life" is a very heavy burden, because more than misleading of their own, they mislead ignorant too. It's a test or not, I don't know. But now, the burden reduces day by day and I can see silence increases. Hope I will shut my mouth soon one day, and come to see everything as a play of three gunas without any thought about 'people/things'. Tamasic and Rajasic Gunas dominate more, even in Spirituality, s very hard to digest. But God digests it witnessing all these, why can't me??. That's what they want, let them seek and suffer. I don't have anything to do about it. "Who am I" to love/hate/burden/change "they"??. Let the flow, flows....

Namaste.

[Ewwerrin]

Originally Posted by Viswa

Nope...
...

Don't speak down to yourself. Your happiness is the only thing that matters to you, but it is also the only thing that matters to anyone else.

I don't say this because you are special in any way, even tho you are, but because it is the universal truth.

Therefor, all truth's are true. And you are always loved and supported by God Source, unconditionally. And that is why you exist. And that is why everything exists.

[saurab]

Let us look at right understanding, it's causes and the way to become a more understanding person. I think understanding implies that we place everything in it's right place and at the right level. That is one aspect. The other thing is how to be more understanding. I think when we observe "what is" never deviating from the message "what is" sends us, then in a very natural way, we begin to understand ourselves better. By "what is" is implied our thoughts and what we really feel about our life AS IT IS HAPPENING, and not just in retrospect. This is one way to generate an active sort of intelligence that constantly adapts to life situations. Also the way we use language to have a dialog with ourselves also contributes to understanding ourselves and others better. Language can be used to hinder or aid understanding. Yet another thing is to be aware of the subtle feedbacks from our environment and others when we think in a certain way or change our thinking in a certain way.

What are some of the ways that you feel that can make us more understanding ?

[saurab]

Originally Posted by Gem

I'm only saying morality is the foundation according to Buddhist philosophy. Formally it is practiced by adhering to precepts like don't lie, steal, kill etc. We take vows to adhere to moral precepts before any training begins

Taking a vow not to kill is the saddest thing in the world. If someone has to take a vow not to kill, it means that Buddhism or any other religion is not suitable for him. He can just have some fun with the babes, do some gambling and all that instead of playing the fool with Buddhism or any other religion.

Understanding is the greatest thing in LIFE both for Man and God. Why do you think God created this universe and all the spirits, people if not to understand and explore his own potentialities and understanding of duality.

Likewise it is the greatest pleasure in life even for Man to be able to understand not just the truth or the Truth, but even little things like why insects crawl the way they crawl...... even simple natural phenomena like the light of the moon on still waters (this kind of understanding is not verbal).

Taking a vow not to have sexual misconduct while you are inwardly burning with lust is pointless. Instead, what should be done when you are burning with lust is to let it come out in your own body, to let it blossom like a rare flower, and to experience the feeling of lust and sexual instinct in your own body. Then you realize through personal experience that experiencing fully the taste of lust gradually reduces it. Next time lust strikes, repeat.

But if you take a vow, you simply suppress the feeling, which could come out later when you become a recognized figure in your locality and there are lesser inhibitions. THat is why there are so many sex scandals with gurus, because when you are recognized as a great guru, you forget the vows, so the suppressed lust comes out with great force and ruins you.

So, before you take to vows, think very deeply about each individual vow and why it is an aspect of morality, and why you are supposed to behave the way the sutras ask you to behave.

Even full and final enlightenment pales in comparison to the ability to understand.

[Gem]

wait... wrong post.

[Maisy]

I think the first of the 8 fold path, right understanding, pretty much ends a lot of stuff. When you know yourself to not be the body and see clearly what a body is, so many things are not even an issue anymore. Lust is impossible to have. "Attraction" requires identification with delusional forms. Interesting that right thought follows right understanding.

But then why not enjoy delusional forms? No reason not to if they serve a purpose such as physical and mental health.

[sky]

[quote=Gem]
but personally, I detest all notions of authority and do not advocate teachers at all[quote]

Detest is a strong word to use imo. What about SN Goenka and His Teachings on Vipassana, His 'School' has rules and regulations which one must follow otherwise Pupils would not be allowed to participate. I personally see Him as a Teacher who has stamped His Authority on Vipassana Retreats. Although I wouldn't choose to attend I don't 'Detest' Him nor His 'School'.

Detest.
To dislike intensely; abhor.To witness against; to denounce; to condemn.To hate intensely; to abhor; to abominate; to loathe.

[sky]

Originally Posted by Maisy

But then why not enjoy delusional forms? No reason not to if they serve a purpose such as physical and mental health.

Delusions are unrealistic, and while looking at ourselves, others, and the World around us it is similar to looking through a distorted mirror.....

[Gem]

Originally Posted by saurab

Even full and final enlightenment pales in comparison to the ability to understand.

Personally I'm not religious and don't advocate any religion, but since the Buddhists have a complex philosophy and mindful approach to meditation, I'm into the philosophy and practicality. I'm not a dogmatist by any means.

Most if not all other religions enter an infinite regress that concludes with God, but Buddhism doesn't 'begin' with God and most certainly does not conclude that way.

Hence we have a moral code without authority which just comes down to the idea of benefit over harm - though that has extremely nuanced implications.

Even though all the online experts oppose this, it does begin with morality, and in a formal setting, entails the vow of sila: no killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying... the typical stuff everyone knows is wrong. It's completely childish out of context, but within a meditation environment it's important in the sense that morality is the foundation of trust, and trust is the essence of the refuge and safety required for purification.

The moral foundation is the ideology upon which the organisational structure is shaped, and the code of conduct specifies prohibited behaviours because such behaviours do not contribute to and/or are disruptive to the purposes of purification, overcoming sorrow, truth and liberation.

[Still_Waters]

QUOTE 119 EXCERPT:

Originally Posted by Gem

Even though all the online experts oppose this, it does begin with morality, and in a formal setting, entails the vow of sila: no killing, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying...

... morality is the foundation of trust, and trust is the essence of the refuge and safety required for purification.

As we have discussed before, Pantanjali's Yoga Sutras start with morality. The Yamas (restraints) constitute the 1st limb and include (but are not limited to) Ahimsa (non-harming), Satya (non-lying, truthfulness) and Asteya (non-stealing). The Sutras are also known as Asthanga Yoga (Eight-Limbed Yoga) since one can be working on several limbs simultaneously just as one is in contact with several limbs while climbing a tree.

Starting with morality is a very valid approach.

HOWEVER ... Buddha's Eightfold Path does NOT start with morality. It starts with RIGHT UNDERSTANDING. Right Understanding is indeed the ultimate ideal and, even though one might not be established in Right Understanding initially, one's understanding is what one considers to be one's ideal in any given moment and, from that, one's morality comes. This seems obvious (at least to me and the many Buddhists I have encountered in multiple countries). Clearly, one's understanding can ultimately evolve into the Right Understanding of the Buddha.

As for taking VOWS , a vow can have some value but it is the mark of a disciplinarian and such a person would seem to be more bound than liberated. In the Hindu epic, the Mahabharata, Bhisma lived to regret a well-intentioned vow that he had taken since it eventually put him on the side opposed by God in the form of Krishna.

Even Jesus reportedly spoke out AGAINST VOWS: "But I say, do not make any vows! Do not say, ‘By heaven!’ because heaven is God’s throne." (Matthew 5:34). Simply say yes or no in the moment in keeping with one's ideal as situations manifest.

Having said that, one must choose the practice best suited to one's temperament and your way is "one way" but certainly not the "only way".